deegee

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Posts by deegee

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  44

  Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  according to the watchtower:.

  who received the ransom payment?.

  why did the ransomer need to be paid?.

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  deegee

  3.) ABOUT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE MYTH:

  Was there any other way to explain mankind's evil nature, the cause of sickness and death etc. without blaming God?

  ___

  Ellen Pagels: Adam, Eve and the serpent:

  Augustine’s novel doctrine of original sin became the new orthodoxy because the Church found this doctrine useful in a Christian Empire.

  A doctrine of man’s freedom and autonomy was useful against a pagan Empire.

  A doctrine that man was imperfect, weak, fallible, and unable to govern himself was more useful to a Roman Empire and a Catholic Church that both wanted obedience.
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  44

  Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  according to the watchtower:.

  who received the ransom payment?.

  why did the ransomer need to be paid?.

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  2. 
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  deegee

  4.) Paul, Genesis 3 & The Early Christians:

  http://www.religioustolerance.org/sin_gene.htm :

  http://www.religioustolerance.org/com_geba.htm :

  In the early years of the Christian movement, there were three distinct belief systems, each with its own interpretation of Genesis 3:

  
  The Jewish Christians, centered in Jerusalem, were the first Christian group, founded by the followers of Jesus. They considered Paul to be a heretic.

  Little is known about their specific beliefs. However, they apparently followed the Jewish traditions and beliefs - one of which did not place a great deal of emphasis on Genesis 3. The Jewish Christians were later killed, scattered, and exiled by the Roman Army during two uprisings in the first and second centuries CE.
  

  
  Some Gnostic sects honored the snake of Genesis 3. They did not view the snake as a seducer who led the first couple into sinful behavior. Rather, they saw him/it as a liberator who brought knowledge to Adam and Eve by convincing them to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and thus to become fully human by achieving something that they did not have when they were created: a moral sense.

  Magically, by eating the fruit, they realized for the first time the difference between good and evil. The Gnostics were attacked by the Pauline Christians in one of the first Christian genocides and essentially wiped out by the mainline Christian church.

  
  The Pauline Christians derived most of their theological beliefs from the Pauline Epistles and the Gospel of John. To them, Genesis 3 was of paramount importance. They saw in the passage the reasons for "humanity's corrupt nature and desperate existential situation."
  Paul used the chapter to derive his concept of sin. Later, Augustine used it to develop his idea of original sin - the belief that all of the generations of Adam and Eve's descendents (including ourselves) have inherited the sinful behavior of the first human couple.
  The Pauline Christians survived to evolve into modern Christianity.
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  44

  Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  according to the watchtower:.

  who received the ransom payment?.

  why did the ransomer need to be paid?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  deegee

  4.) ABOUT PAUL:

  Paul speaks about his mystical, transcendent experience in 2 Corinthians 12 where he is caught up to the third heavens etc.

  While in a transcendent, trance-like altered state of consciousness people can experience hypergraphia - a compulsion to write extensively about spiritual realities.

  This is comparable to channeling or automatic writing whereby while in a transcendent, trance-like altered state of consciousness, your subconscious goes into over drive and you begin to unleash images, visions, words, thoughts, words etc. from the deep levels, inner recesses of your subconscious/unconscious mind.

  I believe this is where Paul's "creative exegesis" of the Old Testament (OT) came from to produce his writings in the New Testament (NT).

  According to Genesis 3:17-19 only Adam and Eve were cursed. There is no mention by God of the extension of the curse to Adam and Eve's children and later descendants.

  There is also no mention of "the Fall" and/or the extension of the curse to Adam's and Eve's offspring, in the remaining chapters of Genesis or the other 38 books (Protestant Bible) of the OT.

  The idea of Adam and Eve passing on sin, imperfection, sickness and death to their offspring was not expounded upon in the OT. It was Paul who later claimed this in his "creative exegesis" of the OT (Romans 5:12, 17 - 19, 1 Corinthians 15: 21, 22 etc).
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  78

  Work Christmas functions: Being a Bible Student (unbaptized)

  by rulehayl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi all,i have been studying with the witnesses for more than 6 months and regularly attend both midweek & weekend meetings, and i am nearly at the end of the "bible teach" book.

  my boss is adamant i attend team christmas functions.

  she knows about my studying and potential baptism next year, and has suggested that i attend and just not participate in activities like kris kringle.

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  deegee

  https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/celebrations.php :

  Watchtower Bible Students actively engaged in and promoted celebrating Christmas, birthdays and Mother's Day until well after 1919. These were thought out apparently under the guidance of Jehovah's holy spirit and explained as acceptable.

  Now Jehovah has dictated that practising these customs is to be considered pagan or creature worship and those that participate are described as "ignorant."

  
  

  This makes a mockery of any claim that the Organization had a special standing in Jesus' eyes in 1919, or chose Watchtower to be his sole channel for salvation, based on it being the only Organization teaching and practicing truth.
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  78

  Work Christmas functions: Being a Bible Student (unbaptized)

  by rulehayl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi all,i have been studying with the witnesses for more than 6 months and regularly attend both midweek & weekend meetings, and i am nearly at the end of the "bible teach" book.

  my boss is adamant i attend team christmas functions.

  she knows about my studying and potential baptism next year, and has suggested that i attend and just not participate in activities like kris kringle.

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  deegee

  rulehayl,

  If Christmas is pagan and hence should not be celebrated then JWs should not wear wedding rings or toast as these are also of pagan origin.

  Talk about double standards!
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  22

  Crises of Conscience latest, plus : a solution for reading it legally, courtesy of u/ziddina

  by Diogenesister in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  recently, someone who knows deborah drexler, the current copyright holder of cofc, asked her if she will consider having it published again.

  her response was:.

  " i will have to ask jesus"!!!!!.

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  deegee

  Is it Deborah Drexler or Deborah Dykstra?

  http://www.commentarypress.com/copyright/

  (website providing news and updates concerning the copyright and re-publishing of Crisis of Conscience)
  
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  75

  Rock band titles from JW history / culture

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on another thread, undercover suggested "adam and the dinosaurs".. i came up with these:.

  green bible dinosaurs.

  jezebel and the fornicators.

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  deegee

  Two Witness Rule

  Earthquake

  Sign of The Times
  
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  17

  Bad experiences in waking someone up?

  by Fred Flintstone in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i mean, is it advisable to try to wake a friend up?

  what about the risk of he/she falling into depression?

  anger?

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  deegee

  What scratchme1010 wrote.

  It has been said that people join religions to meet psychological needs (most times unbeknownst to themselves).

  Nine factors have been associated with recruitment into cults - SOURCE: Factors related to susceptibility and recruitment by cults by Curtis JM, Curtis MJ. Psychol Rep 1993 Oct;73(2):451-60:

  a) generalized ego-weakness and emotional vulnerability

  
  b) propensities toward dissociative states

  
  c) tenuous, deteriorated, or nonexistent family relations and support systems

  
  d) inadequate means of dealing with exigencies of survival

  
  e) history of severe child abuse or neglect

  
  f) exposure to idiosyncratic or eccentric family patterns

  
  g) proclivities toward or abuse of controlled substances

  
  h) unmanageable and debilitating situational stress and crises

  
  i) intolerable socioeconomic conditions.

  Mental health issues can be involved in a person's turning to religion. For example, persons on the schizophrenic, Axis I or Axis II spectrum tend to exhibit religious intensification.

  Also, intensification may be one of the coping mechanisms used to deal with distress/trauma, and is associated with the need to find meaning in the distressing event in order to avoid a breakdown of identity [1] or find relief from whatever is overwhelming them.

  [1] Van der Lons, J. (1991). What is psychology of religion about? Psychology of religion. H. Malony. Grand Rapids, MI, Baker

  ___

  SEE https://www.openmindsfoundation.org/advice-and-guidance/when-someone-you-love-is-in-a-coercive-situation-reblog.

  It provides a list of DOs & DON'Ts.

  It also provides some simple questions you can ask a loved one to get them to start thinking for themselves – which is always a good first step:

  - What attracted you to your group in the first place?

  - When you first joined, what did you expect to achieve as a member of the group?

  - What have you achieved?

  - What do you hope to achieve in the future?

  - What have you personally witnessed others achieve?

  - How long do you expect it will take for you to achieve your goals?

  _____

  People have been raised to believe that God cares for them, he solves problems and difficulties and he is watching over them every hour, every minute of every day. This gives them a sense of security.

  Trying to wake someone up can feel like an attack on their sense of security.
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  59

  A Little Direction Please

  by Brian J in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i'm an active elder, cobe, just got home from the meeting where i handled the treasures part and concluded by announcing a friend of mine has been d/f,.....blah blah blah...and over the last year have woken up.

  i simply cannot spill my guts to my wife and children as it would be family suicide.

  i have zero desire to bash, spread my feelings, or become an "apostate".

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  deegee

  Terry,

  There is nu light for your meme - it's LEDs now LOL
  
• 
  5

  End of sentences appear to be cut off

  by deegee in

  1. forum
  2. tech-support

  on about 2 occasions after uploading my comment, i noted that the end of sentences appear to be cut off.

  this is what i see i don't know if my post also appears that way to others.. this seems to happen especially when long urls/web addresses are included in my post.. i always select the "full screen" icon from the menu at the top of the comment box in order to view my comment in full screen mode so as to make sure that all of the information is visible, yet, on uploading my comment, the end of sentences appear to be cut off.. also, in order to make sure that i have included everything i want to state, i sometimes type my comment in ms word on my laptop or in a draft e-mail on my phone then copy & paste it into the comment box.

  some of these pre-typed comments have included long urls/web addresses and the end of sentences appear to be cut off in this instance as well - don't know if pre-typing my comment in a word processor and then cutting and pasting it into the thread has anything to do with the problem.. i tried to correct the situation after uploading: i used the editing feature to delete my post.

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  deegee

  Thanks guys.