Posts by deegee

61

The "circle" of the earth

by stillin in

a fair bit of time was spent discussing the (one) scripture in the bible that "proves" that when the bible touches on scientific subjects, it is absolutely correct.

this was at the most recent clam meeting this past week.

from isaiah, the reference to the "circle" of the earth.

deegee

earth was a flat circular disk.
Show this from the Bible --------Fisherman

How many dimensions does a circle have? (Isaiah 40:22)

40

Return of the Dub (plus surprise guest)

by TerryWalstrom in

jw
friends

return of the dub (plus surprise guest)dealing with just one frisky, bright-eyed jehovah’s witness is a handful.one on one is manageable.

two jw’s is more like juggling chainsaws or french kissing alligators.i had a return visit the other day and now, the jw was returning the 2nd time, but with another dub.what would my strategy be?

that’s how the day was spent.

deegee

Terry,

How about this argument?

ARMAGEDDON COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED.

Since it's all about killing humans, if God could almost wipe out every human during the Flood and plans on destroying humans again at Armageddon then why not just destroy Adam & Eve before they had any children and start over again, and keep starting over if necessary, until he got the perfect couple, since it's all about killing humans?

There would be less collateral damage. All of the human suffering, all of the wars and diseases could have been avoided etc etc.

Or is t that God can only be satisfied if there's some drama?

61

The "circle" of the earth

by stillin in

a fair bit of time was spent discussing the (one) scripture in the bible that "proves" that when the bible touches on scientific subjects, it is absolutely correct.

this was at the most recent clam meeting this past week.

from isaiah, the reference to the "circle" of the earth.

deegee

the "circle" of the earth. Depends on the perspective or point of view; the sun does not move in relation to the earth either. "A sphere looks like a circle from any angle or direction. (That's one of the ways people knew that the Earth is a sphere ... every time there's a lunar eclipse, the ..." --answers.com ----------Fisherman

Why didn’t the Bible just state this?

64

Free to sin but still cannot bring myself to do it

by sinboi in

have da'd myself nearly 3 months ago.

now i am part of this world but i feel myself the odd one out.

something inside me is still blocking me to do the things i have been longing to do while i was still a jw, such as attending birthday parties, sex, etc.... just last nite, i was on the way to attend a birthday party.

deegee

Sindoi,

Life is to be enjoyed but it goes without saying that we should always be guided by the principle that our decisions and actions can have good or bad consequences so we need to think before we speak or act.

We do harm to ourselves (and others) by our own bad decisions and actions. This is not punishment by "God" it is just the consequence of our OWN decisions and actions. You are not "sinning" against "God". If you are "sinning" against anyone it would be against yourself because YOU have to live with the consequences of your decisions and actions.

Enjoy life but always think about the likely consequences or potential harm to yourself and others of your decisions and actions.

6

Field Service By Atheists

by EverApostate in

good morning everyone,.

came across a very funny yet sensible poster on field service and wanted to share.

most of us would have done field service once upon a time and this poster would really make us laugh..

deegee

LOL. Good one.

22

As a JW how would you answer this if someone brought it up in the ministry?

by NikL in

as a jw i pretty much just went along with what was taught from the platform i didn't do any real bible study.

as a result, now that i am out of the org.

i find scriptures that blow my mind.. i am not sure how i would have reacted if someone had pointed this out to me when i was a jw but now i can't believe i've never noticed this before.

deegee

NikL,

No need to worry, whichever side you choose you are right.
The Bible is contradictory. There are scriptures which state that Jesus is God & there are scriptures which state that Jesus is NOT God.

Just a note: the doctrine of the Trinity is no where announced in the Old Testament (OT).
The Trinity - God in three persons - is a concept completely foreign to Jewish thought.

Not only did Jesus not fulfill the OT prophecies of what the messiah would do, in nature he was also completely different from what the OT said the messiah would be. The Old Testament’s clear expectation is that the Jews’ savior would be a righteous and powerful, but still entirely human ruler.

There is no hint that he would be God’s own son, much less one-third of God himself. This development - the division of the formerly unified deity into Father, Son and Holy Ghost - did not come about until later, the time of formation of the New Testament canon.

No verse in the Old Testament anticipates such a startling disclosure, and some verses even seem to deny it:

- Deuteronomy 6:4
- Deuteronomy 32:39
- Isaiah 46:9

Rather than affirming his oneness for millennia and then suddenly telling his people to believe something different, why didn’t God say he was tripartite all along? Did he not want to confuse the Israelites’ strict monotheism?

But isn’t it even more confusing to neglect to tell them about it for a long time and then suddenly spring it on them?
Many Jews reject Christianity because they see the Trinity as polytheism.

Far more likely is that the Trinity was invented by later Christians in response to their need for a structure for God that could accommodate their beliefs about the divinity of Jesus.

Jesus certainly fits the criterion of a god the Jews had not known, and thus by the Bible’s own standard, they were obligated to reject him (Deuteronomy 13:1-3).

22

As a JW how would you answer this if someone brought it up in the ministry?

by NikL in

as a jw i pretty much just went along with what was taught from the platform i didn't do any real bible study.

as a result, now that i am out of the org.

i find scriptures that blow my mind.. i am not sure how i would have reacted if someone had pointed this out to me when i was a jw but now i can't believe i've never noticed this before.

deegee

.........CONT'D:

Is Jesus God?

NO, JESUS IS NOT GOD:

*** God cannot be tempted.

James 1:13:
"God cannot be tempted."

Yet Jesus was tempted. (So he isn't God):

Matthew 4:1; Luke 4:1-2:
"Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Jesus.......Being forty days tempted of the devil."

Hebrews 4:14-15:
"Jesus........was in all points tempted as we are.

*** Jesus (sometimes) denied that he was God.

By saying:

- That he was neither good nor God:

Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18:
"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."

- That his father was greater than he was:

John 14:28:
"My Father is greater than I."

- That he was just a man, a child of God like everyone else:

John 20:17:
"I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

John 8:40:
"But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God."

- As he was dying, Jesus asked God why he had forsaken him (can God forsake God?):

Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34:
"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? "

*** After Jesus died, he sat on the right hand of God (can God sit on his own right side?):

Mark 16:19:
"So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God."

Colossians 3:1:
"Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."

1 Peter 3:21-22;
"Jesus Christ: who is........on the right hand of God."

*** Jesus is the man God chose to judge other men and be their mediator:

Acts 17:31:
"Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."

1 Timothy 2:5:
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

*** He is still subject to God:

1 Corinthians 15:28:
"And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

*** God knows more than Jesus:

Matthew 24:36:
"Of that day and hour knoweth no man, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

*** The Trinity - God in three persons - is a concept completely foreign to Jewish thought:

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.”

Deuteronomy 32:39 (compare especially to John 1:1):
“See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me."

Isaiah 46:9:
“I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.”

22

As a JW how would you answer this if someone brought it up in the ministry?

by NikL in

as a jw i pretty much just went along with what was taught from the platform i didn't do any real bible study.

as a result, now that i am out of the org.

i find scriptures that blow my mind.. i am not sure how i would have reacted if someone had pointed this out to me when i was a jw but now i can't believe i've never noticed this before.

deegee

THE BIBLE IS CONTRADICTORY

GOD INSPIRED THE BIBLE WRITERS TO CONTRADICT EACH OTHER (2 Timothy 3:16).

Is Jesus God?

YES, JESUS IS GOD:

*** The first words of John's gospel imply that Jesus ("the Word") is God.

John 1:1,14:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us."

*** Jesus (sometimes) claimed to be God. By forgiving sins. (Only God can forgive sins.)

Matthew 9:2-6; Mark 2:3-12:
"Jesus.......said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth ... That ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house."

John 5:16-18:
"Therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."

*** By claiming to be the same as God.

John 14:9:
"He that hath seen me hath seen the Father."

*** By saying that he existed before Abraham, using one of God's names, "I am."

John 8:58 - 59:
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
After hearing Jesus say these things, the Jews tried to stone him to death for claiming to be God."

John 10:30-31:
"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him."

John 10:38-39:
"The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him."

*** When Thomas called Jesus God, Jesus didn't correct him. Rather, he said that everyone should believe he is God, even those who have never seen him.

John 20:28-29:
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

*** The New Testament (sometimes) also refers to Jesus as God:

- That the church of God was purchased with the blood of God (or maybe the Holy Ghost):

Acts 20:28:
"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

- That Jesus created all things:

Colossians 1:16:
"For by him [Jesus] were all things created."

- That the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus bodily:

Colossians 2:9:
"For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily."

- That God was made manifest in Jesus' flesh:

1 Timothy 3:16:
"God was made manifest in the flesh."

- That Jesus is the great God who is in the form of God, is equal to God, and sits on the throne of God."

Titus 2:13:
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ."

Philippians 2:6:
"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God."

Hebrews 1:8
"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

*** In the book of Revelation, Jesus calls himself the first and the last, and the alpha and the omega:

Revelation 1:17:
"I am the first and the last."

Revelation 22:13:
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

23

Translating accurately is really f*&%$ing hard!

by TTWSYF in

i wanted to relay an example that i heard about translating difficulties.

take the 5 word phrase.

"i didn't eat your sandwich".

deegee

The 900-plus page "Catalogue Of English Bible Translations" (W. Chamberlin, 1991) lists 151 categories - not just translations, but categories of translations - of just the English versions of god's word.

With so many attempts at it, you'd think at least one translation would have got it right and then there would be no need for the other translations.

Why, why, why are there so many English translations?

Couldn't the one true God have told us about the one true faith in one reliable, readable holy writ?

Couldn't he have resurrected the original inspired texts like some dead sea trolls that keep popping up here? Does he not speak the language of the one true church (English)?

64

Free to sin but still cannot bring myself to do it

by sinboi in

have da'd myself nearly 3 months ago.

now i am part of this world but i feel myself the odd one out.

something inside me is still blocking me to do the things i have been longing to do while i was still a jw, such as attending birthday parties, sex, etc.... just last nite, i was on the way to attend a birthday party.

deegee

Sinboi,

Just so that I understand where you are coming from - What was your reason for disassociating, was it so that you could "sin"?