i used to be a staunch believer in god.
maybe its technology and science advancing so much thats got me doubting idk.
do you believe in god?
I believe in God. I need my faith as it gives me hope.
However...I am not at all surprised how the watchtower Society has turned so many off their beliefs. This Religion just about smothered my faith to the point I almost became an atheist.
I have read the Bible through and now have my own belief system.
i happened to come across a time article in 2008. it was basically talking about the high turnover in american faiths.
it mentioned the jdubs and highlighted the following point.. an even more extreme example of what might be called "masked churn" is the relatively tiny jehovah's witnesses, with a turnover rate of about two-thirds.
that means that two-thirds of the people who told pew they were raised jehovah's witnesses no longer are — yet the group attracts roughly the same number of converts.
While I realize other people are not as free to leave as I was, I would not want to have to be faking it for the sake of family or whatever. It also makes one wonder just how many JWs in any given Hall are actually in their minds still genuine JWs? Just how many are faking it, is the question.
LongHairGal
I agree with your point LongHairGal. I admit I'm a faker. I think there are fakers in just about every hall throughout the world. That is really sad.
I believe the leadership at Watchtower are aware of this which is a reason why they keep their cruel shunning policy. Angus Stewart at the Australian Royal Commission nailed it when he discussed the shunning policy by saying that in effect the watchtower society is a captive religion. Many of us fakers are held captive in this Religion because of that very policy.
i happened to come across a time article in 2008. it was basically talking about the high turnover in american faiths.
it mentioned the jdubs and highlighted the following point.. an even more extreme example of what might be called "masked churn" is the relatively tiny jehovah's witnesses, with a turnover rate of about two-thirds.
that means that two-thirds of the people who told pew they were raised jehovah's witnesses no longer are — yet the group attracts roughly the same number of converts.
The implication of my post is that people that stay in this religion are:
- Lacking in moral integrity,
- Have less than even a moderate amount of courage,
- and are extremely low in self-awareness
Jp1692
Though I agree with some of the above, that for many these can be factors as to why people stay, there are however other factors involved.
I found it useful to reflect on the 3 points you made from a personal angle.
In regards to moral integrity. Its not that I lack moral integrity, it's about how you view your situation. Yes the JWs have many things that are clearly wrong, but so do the other 30 or so thousand Christian based groups. As a Christian who wants to worship God, I could leave the jdubs and join another group . However, the turmoil this would cause within my family and so on would be a stress I couldn't handle at this time. So I reason that God knows my situation. It's the religious leaders of every denomination will pay the price for misleading people just as Jesus viewed the Pharisees of his day.
In regards to courage, I have on about 3 occasions over the years pointed out to the elders the many things the society have got wrong. I can't believe they didn't kick me out to be honest. On one of those occasions I wrote a five page letter outlining these issues. They clearly didn't want to rock the boat, instead saying perhaps Jehovah will in time change these things? Admittedly, I know I have been watched over the years by the elders. It's a bit like they don't step on my toes, I won't step on theirs.
Lastly, I am very self aware. I know what I believe, God knows what I believe. The GB, the elders etc cannot take this away from me.
For me the biggest factor as to why I stay is purely' for social reasons. That's it. I have faded in the past for several years, but this made things very awkward for my wife etc.
I am also hopeful that the Watchtower Society will wake up and smell the coffee. That they will reform many of their ridiculous policies. That they might just even one day be that quaint benign Christian faith group I thought I was joining all those years ago.
I can't say how things will go in the future. I may fade, I may end up df'd, I may continue to do what I do now is attend occasionally just to keep up appearences. Who knows.
Your points were very thought provoking. Thanks
UTC
i happened to come across a time article in 2008. it was basically talking about the high turnover in american faiths.
it mentioned the jdubs and highlighted the following point.. an even more extreme example of what might be called "masked churn" is the relatively tiny jehovah's witnesses, with a turnover rate of about two-thirds.
that means that two-thirds of the people who told pew they were raised jehovah's witnesses no longer are — yet the group attracts roughly the same number of converts.
I've seen others leave because no one invites them anywhere or to do anything. They'll associate at the hall with them, but thats about it. If you aren't part of the clique, then it sucks for them. Its a sad religion, and not one to go to if you want true friends
dbq407
The social aspect is a huge factor. My good lady is a very sociable outgoing person. She has quite a large circle of friends within the religion. She was a born in and new people as she grew up. On the other hand, I recall the isolation I felt when I was single. I was a convert. I was rarely invited out and it really affected me to the point I thought there must be something wrong with me. It wasn't me. It was this bat shit crazy religion! I was just about to leave when I met my wife. 20+ years later, here I am 🙄
i happened to come across a time article in 2008. it was basically talking about the high turnover in american faiths.
it mentioned the jdubs and highlighted the following point.. an even more extreme example of what might be called "masked churn" is the relatively tiny jehovah's witnesses, with a turnover rate of about two-thirds.
that means that two-thirds of the people who told pew they were raised jehovah's witnesses no longer are — yet the group attracts roughly the same number of converts.
The real story became apparent after a couple of years. It's like peeling an onion one layer at a time. Everybody is very secretive and nobody there will level with you about what is wrong. You have to find out on your own, one rude awakening after another. I was on the fringes of the religion
LongHairGal
That has most definitely been the experience many of us have had. I recall the days before the internet when I would watch elders on news reports or documentaries (eg suffer the little children) refuse to answer questions. They would walk past the journalists without saying a word. I always thought that very arrogant and bizarre. Cognitive dissonance allowed me to brush these thoughts aside by thinking 'oh ...they are not wanting to cast their pearls before swine' 🙄
I also felt I couldn't ask 'the why' questions, because of the group think culture within the organisation. Questioning the GB is tantamount to questioning God. To my shock and horror when the internet came along, I discovered that numerous individuals were disfellowshipped for questioning the teachings of the GB.
The secrecy of this organisation sickens me. The Australian royal commission truly exposed the secretive, deceptive nature of the organisation. Thank God for the age of the internet.
i happened to come across a time article in 2008. it was basically talking about the high turnover in american faiths.
it mentioned the jdubs and highlighted the following point.. an even more extreme example of what might be called "masked churn" is the relatively tiny jehovah's witnesses, with a turnover rate of about two-thirds.
that means that two-thirds of the people who told pew they were raised jehovah's witnesses no longer are — yet the group attracts roughly the same number of converts.
The problem is that those who are 'born-in' become JWs by 'default' having made no real decision and are more likely to be 'weak' members.
Whereas those who have converted have made a specific decision to join and are therefore more likely to be 'stronger' members
Darkspilver
I would have to agree with your point. A perfect example of this was when I recently went to an ex JW Meetup and this discussion came up.
I was a convert. For many years I was quite strong in my faith. Those at the ex JW Meetup who were brought up, mentioned that they never felt spiritual at all. I found this really interesting.
i happened to come across a time article in 2008. it was basically talking about the high turnover in american faiths.
it mentioned the jdubs and highlighted the following point.. an even more extreme example of what might be called "masked churn" is the relatively tiny jehovah's witnesses, with a turnover rate of about two-thirds.
that means that two-thirds of the people who told pew they were raised jehovah's witnesses no longer are — yet the group attracts roughly the same number of converts.
I happened to come across a Time article in 2008. It was basically talking about the high turnover in American faiths. It mentioned the jdubs and highlighted the following point.
An even more extreme example of what might be called "masked churn" is the relatively tiny Jehovah's Witnesses, with a turnover rate of about two-thirds. That means that two-thirds of the people who told Pew they were raised Jehovah's Witnesses no longer are — yet the group attracts roughly the same number of converts. Notes Lugo, "No wonder they have to keep on knocking on doors."
http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1716987,00.html
Throughout my years as a witness, I have personally seen people come and go. The retention rate appears to be quite poor and not that many converts in the congregations I went to. I have seen quite a few people fade and disappear without a whisper of why? Some left because they didn't get on with the elders. One young lad left because he had a 'worldly' girlfriend. And another guy left because he didn't feel good enough!
Is this something you have experienced?
hi all.. for many years now, i have been writing letters to bethel in new york and london.
i have also written to the charity commission, the bbc and more to highlight the harmful teachings and policies of the watchtower society.
i realise that some may view this as futile and understand why they might feel this way,; especially considering the pharisaical stonewall-like attitude displayed by the leadership of watchtower.. some reasons i do so is because i feel that constructive criticism is essential in helping to bring about change.
Hi everyone and sorry for the late reply.
I appreciate all your thoughts and respect all your views.
One thing I do know is that JW.org are run by 'men', that's it!l Slimboyfat made an excellent Point that the organisation is now at a weak point and who knows, what impact my letters (and those of others) may have. These letters just might strike a chord.
Also, as someone mentioned, writing to local politicians, the media etc may be key to putting pressure on the leadership of Jehovah's witnesses to bring about change.
Someone else mentioned that it took the Australian royal commission to bring about change to the societies safe guarding policy. Yes 'Proof of all proofs' that actively bringing such issues to the attention of others can make a difference. Fair play to our Australian friends for their brave active determination.
The important thing is to highlight the issues of the watchtower organisation in the most effective way possible. Small or great, all of us have the power to do something/ anything to bring about change.
Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts
UTC
hi all.. for many years now, i have been writing letters to bethel in new york and london.
i have also written to the charity commission, the bbc and more to highlight the harmful teachings and policies of the watchtower society.
i realise that some may view this as futile and understand why they might feel this way,; especially considering the pharisaical stonewall-like attitude displayed by the leadership of watchtower.. some reasons i do so is because i feel that constructive criticism is essential in helping to bring about change.
Hi all.
For many years now, I have been writing letters to bethel in New York and London. I have also written to the charity commission, the BBC and more to highlight the harmful teachings and policies of the Watchtower Society.
I realise that some may view this as futile and understand why they might feel this way,; especially considering the pharisaical stonewall-like attitude displayed by the leadership of watchtower.
Some reasons I do so is because I feel that constructive criticism is essential in helping to bring about change. It also helps organisations to move forward (even if it is the Watchtower Society).
For me personally, as like many others, I truly want to see an end to the harmful policies and teachings of watchtower. Actively doing something, whether it be writing, phoning, making videos, respectfully demonstrating etc all adds up.
My aim is not to destroy the watchtower society,. I respect people's beliefs. My hope and aim is to end the reppressive culture within the watchtower organisation.
I will say though, unless watchtower starts making some drastic changes soon, unless they start accepting constructive criticism and listen to what their members are saying, they will simply implode! Currently, they are taking a battering for so many issues ranging from child abuse scandals to the issue of shunning, to needless death's as a result of their blood policy...and much more.
It's interesting that most of the critisicm is coming from within, whether current or ex members.
Let's hope change comes soon.
by a split second rescuing our handicapped son from being pushed down the stairs by a flood of sisters rushing out to see as the drama had started.. the main offender being a special pioneer..
I walked in late to a convention. Some wet behind the ears, wide eyed young lad decided to direct us to '2' seats for my daughter and I right in the center of of a line of seats full middle aged to old sisters.
That was bad enough. But to make matters worse it was during a very emotional video of a sister dying and coming back in the resurrection. All the sisters had tears in their eyes. They must have been thinking who the f*#@ is this AH coming in at this time spoiling the moment. It was embarrassing and awkward to say the least. 😯
