Posts by Drearyweather

45

Why the need for 144000 imperfect humans to Rule with Christ Jesus for 1000 years ? Is he incapable of ruling by himself ?

by smiddy in

does this make any sense whatsoever ?

isnt jesus christ the king ?why the need for 144000 king priests to help him ?.

is he not up for the job?

Drearyweather

Smiddy

The only reason I can think of is that all everything created by God has its own purpose. Angels have been used by God for various purposes, executioners (for Assyrians), transmitting messages (Gabriel), rescuing individuals (Daniel’s three friends, Peter, Lot), encouraging (Jesus in the garden), and performing ministering work (Heb. 1:14), etc. The last time they did something against God ended badly (during Noah’s flood)

In the Bible, angels have never been used in rulership positions for earthly matters. Even in the greater arrangement of things, they have not been purposed to be used as rulers or priests. In fact, God chose to reveal secrets to men on this earth, not to angels (1 Peter 1:12).

And observing will always be observing. Angels will have a wealth of insight and information into human behavior through their years of observing. But the most important aspect that they lack is mental and physical involvement and exposure to varying human patterns. Centuries of observing from heaven will never give them the physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, religious, social, subjective and tacit experience that can be gained by just 1 year of physical involvement with humans. Jesus experienced all of this as a human.

And so I feel humans will always be apt for the job.

But yep, will feel sorry for the pissed off angels.

45

Why the need for 144000 imperfect humans to Rule with Christ Jesus for 1000 years ? Is he incapable of ruling by himself ?

by smiddy in

does this make any sense whatsoever ?

isnt jesus christ the king ?why the need for 144000 king priests to help him ?.

is he not up for the job?

Drearyweather

crazyguy,

In the Original Greek as you said, the scriptures in the NT mention the role of these priests as "Kingdom of priests", or "priests reigning on the earth", "made us to be a kingdom and priests", "royal priesthood", etc.

Barring Melchizedek of old, in the Israelite kingdom, the roles of Kings and Priests were separated. No King was allowed to perform priestly duties, neither did the priests have any part in reigning or ruling.

Jesus Christ is rightly mentioned as priest like Melzdk, as he would be performing a dual role of future king and a high-priest. In the similar way, those associated with Jesus in heaven are described to be as priests as well as reigning with Jesus. Hence like Jesus, they too would have a dual role of reigning as subordinate rulers (or kings) and performing priestly duties (Royal priesthood or Kingly priesthood).

45

Why the need for 144000 imperfect humans to Rule with Christ Jesus for 1000 years ? Is he incapable of ruling by himself ?

by smiddy in

does this make any sense whatsoever ?

isnt jesus christ the king ?why the need for 144000 king priests to help him ?.

is he not up for the job?

Drearyweather

anointed1, you said,

Yet the implied truth is that God and Jesus need help from "experienced humans" which actually dishonor them.

I’m not sure how the comparisons between angels and humans imply Christ’s incapability. Do the Bible or JW publications quote or mention that the reason for the selection of 144,000 is due to Jesus’ or Jehovah’s incapability as rulers? I would be interested to know specific statements or quotes regarding this.

Just to know this from another perspective: Two days ago, I had decided to paint my backyard fence and the Outer wall of my house. I am experiences and competent in this job and in fact I have done it alone many times before. My close cousin, who is also experienced in this work, had come over to our place to visit us and I invited him to join me in the task. Does the fact that I invited my cousin imply that I am incapable and thus needed his help? How does this dishonor me?

I feel that inviting or calling someone over to join me in the work is different from asking someone to help me because I am unable to do it.

But yes, you can chose to believe otherwise.

45

Why the need for 144000 imperfect humans to Rule with Christ Jesus for 1000 years ? Is he incapable of ruling by himself ?

by smiddy in

does this make any sense whatsoever ?

isnt jesus christ the king ?why the need for 144000 king priests to help him ?.

is he not up for the job?

Drearyweather

anointed1, you said

"Jehovah could have given angels as co-kings and co-priests along with Jesus, but He extended this privilege to humans because they are the one who are tried with Jesus on earth who gave a fitting reply to Satan’s taunt."

This comparison is between angels and humans. According to this statement, it indicates the incapability of the angels (not Christ) to serve as rulers, hence humans were chosen.

45

Why the need for 144000 imperfect humans to Rule with Christ Jesus for 1000 years ? Is he incapable of ruling by himself ?

by smiddy in

does this make any sense whatsoever ?

isnt jesus christ the king ?why the need for 144000 king priests to help him ?.

is he not up for the job?

Drearyweather

Revelation 5:9,10 does say "on the earth".

But there are other scriptures that suggests it would be from heaven:

Rev 3:21: New International Version

To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Matthew 19:28
Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luke 22:30:

New International Version
so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

45

Why the need for 144000 imperfect humans to Rule with Christ Jesus for 1000 years ? Is he incapable of ruling by himself ?

by smiddy in

does this make any sense whatsoever ?

isnt jesus christ the king ?why the need for 144000 king priests to help him ?.

is he not up for the job?

Drearyweather

l asked this question to my JW friend, and here is his reply:

JW's don't believe that the 144,000 are called because Christ requires "help" or "need" to reign over earth. Jesus was a master worker with Jehovah, however it was not because Jehovah was incapable of creating and thus required Jesus help.

No where do our publications state that the the heavenly calling is due to Christ's incapability as a ruler.

The 144,000 are called due to God's mercy, undeserved kindness and it was God's purpose that obedient human beings from earth who are declared righteous be given the opportunity to share in the Kingdom Rule.

2 Tim 1:9 :

He saved us and called us with a holy calling, not because of our works, but because of his own purpose and undeserved kindness. This was given to us in connection with Christ Jesus before times long ago.

1 Peter 1:3:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

78

The handling of child abuse allegations

by Landy in

there's a lot of criticism surrounding the jw's handling of chiild abuse within their ranks with a lot of it being well deserved.

but i'm interested to know how people on here think child abuse allegations should be handled.

there's a few scenarios below, the first couple are easy then it gets a bit more complex.

Drearyweather

Regarding mandatory reporting, I was interested to know the following details:

1. Can a concept of "Universal Mandatory Reporting" be brought into effect to curb this problem?

2. What are some reasons why certain states/countries do not have mandatory reporting law?

3. Are there studies that highlight the increase/decrease of reporting of child abuse cases in states with mandatory reporting laws vs states with no mandatory reporting laws? If reporting rates increase, how much percent of it are substantiated and how many non-substantiated?

4. In cases where individuals are legally required to report child abuse upon "reasonable suspicion" to the authorities, how many of such cases turn out to be unsubstantiated?

78

The handling of child abuse allegations

by Landy in

there's a lot of criticism surrounding the jw's handling of chiild abuse within their ranks with a lot of it being well deserved.

but i'm interested to know how people on here think child abuse allegations should be handled.

there's a few scenarios below, the first couple are easy then it gets a bit more complex.

Drearyweather

Iown Mylife,

By "solving", the parents meant that Elders should have investigated and disfellowshipped the person, without getting the police involved in the process.

The Elders did disfellowship the person, but once the police got involved, the case became public and dragged on in the courts, sadly leading to social ostracism to the girl, threats by the abuser's family members, financial strain on the family and in turn leading to a situation where no one could give timely help to the victim. All of this ended in an out of court settlement, between the Victim’s and the Accused's families.

So my point was, what should the elders do if parents do not wish that their case to go to courts?

78

The handling of child abuse allegations

by Landy in

there's a lot of criticism surrounding the jw's handling of chiild abuse within their ranks with a lot of it being well deserved.

but i'm interested to know how people on here think child abuse allegations should be handled.

there's a few scenarios below, the first couple are easy then it gets a bit more complex.

Drearyweather

Shepherdless

You mentioned, Make it clear to the congregation that only those with the relevant clearance are allowed unaccompanied with children.

I wanted to know the impact of the clearance. I can understand the clearances for kindergartens and schools.

As a rough statistics that I read, 89% of child abuse cases are by someone the child knows (39% parents & 50% relatives/church members). How can clearances be provided to known relatives and family members? Is having an appropriate clearance a surety that that person won’t indulge in child abuse?

Regarding reporting to the police, I know of a case where Elders reported the abuse case to the police against the parent’s wishes. However due to rampant corruption in the legal system here, the case became messier day by day eventually causing much financial and emotional distress to the victim and her family. To this day, the family and many congregation members accuse the elders for not investigating and solving the case themselves and pushing their job to the Police.

22

India ... what's the latest?

by no-zombie in

we haven't heard much recently about india.

whats the current situation over there?

.

Drearyweather

alanv

The point is the vast majority of Indians have no idea about the JW message

JW's are not unique. In reality, with over millions of deities in Hinduism itself, vast majority of Indians have no idea about their own religion, let alone a foreign American religion like JW’s. Vast majority of these Indians have no idea about the other Christian religions too, even after 2000 years of missionary and conversion activities and many Christian ministries have far more vigorous preaching methods than JW's.

A third of the world has never heard their message. This can be easily checked in the 2017 Yearbook

Yes, a third of the world has never heard their message. There are many countries in the world who have not allowed this kind of missionary activity in their country and thus probably will never hear the JW message and in fact messages of other Christian ministries too. If they allow, I feel results would be different.

The org cant say the preaching has been completed in all the earth if that is so.

Sorry, I’m not completely sure about this. Do JW’s claim that they have ‘completed’ their preaching in all the earth? I hear them saying that they have ‘reached’ to all parts of the earth. I feel there is a great difference in these two terms.