Drearyweather

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Posts by Drearyweather

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  25

  RUSSIA: (6 April 2017) Day 2 - Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way

  by jwleaks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  tighter security today and much greater police presence.

  great weather.. .

  lunchtime view over moscow.. .

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  Drearyweather

  4:37

  Toporov tries to find out, whether under the law on extremism can be taken out to "structural division" without the organization itself. The Ministry of Justice is forced to admit that a warning must be issued to the entire organization.

  4:40

  The logical question of Toporov: if a warning was issued to a local religious organization and not issued to the Management Center, then how can this local organization be the "structural unit" of the center? No way.

  4:42

  The Ministry of Justice now believes that issuing a warning to the "structural unit" is not prohibited by law, which means that the prosecutor's office could do it. What is not forbidden is allowed. The judge clarifies with the representative of the Ministry, were any of the notifications of the religious organization (the management center) then directed at least? There is no information that such notifications are sent.

  4:46

  A new question from Toporov to the Ministry of Justice. Does the law on combating extremism provide for the possibility of liquidating a "structural unit" without liquidating the organization itself? The representative of the Ministry of Justice: "According to your interpretation, does not provide". The judge asks the plaintiff to accept the answer of the ministry in this form.
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  25

  RUSSIA: (6 April 2017) Day 2 - Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way

  by jwleaks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  tighter security today and much greater police presence.

  great weather.. .

  lunchtime view over moscow.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Drearyweather

  4:30

  The representative of the defendant Yuri Toporov is trying to find out what the Ministry of Justice puts into the concept of "the structural subdivision of the world organization of Jehovah's Witnesses". What is a "world organization"? Is this some sort of legal entity? The Ministry of Justice believes that no, it is a question of a certain canonical concept. What is a "structural unit"? Is this a legal concept? No, rather a canonical connection. The next question is: in what sense then does the Ministry of Justice use this term in relation to the LRO, saying that they are "structural subdivisions of the Management Center"? In canonical or legal? The representative of the Ministry of Justice believes that this is the same.
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  25

  RUSSIA: (6 April 2017) Day 2 - Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way

  by jwleaks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  tighter security today and much greater police presence.

  great weather.. .

  lunchtime view over moscow.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Drearyweather

  4:10

  Zhenkov asks whether the Ministry of Justice knows that materials that are considered extremist constitute 0.1% of the entire literature of Jehovah's Witnesses. The Ministry of Justice does not know this. Is it known to the Ministry of Justice that the Rostov Regional Court, which recognized 34 publications of Jehovah's Witnesses as extremist, at the same time refused to recognize the extremist dozens of others.

  4:19

  Zhenkov clarifies whether it is known to the Ministry of Justice that literature has not been imported to Russia for two years. The Ministry of Justice knows this. Then there is a natural question, why exactly in 2017 the Ministry of Justice raised the issue of liquidation. The Ministry of Justice can not provide facts confirming that during the last 12 months the Management Center distributed "extremist" literature.

  The Ministry of Justice informs that the date of entering materials into this list is not specified in the FEMC.

  The judge asks the representative of the Ministry whether it is possible to file claims of the religious organization, as well as customs, for the fact that materials imported into the country that in the future will be considered extremist? How to know in advance what material will be included in the FEMC. The representative of the Ministry of Justice: no way, just contact the FSEM.
  
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  25

  RUSSIA: (6 April 2017) Day 2 - Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way

  by jwleaks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  tighter security today and much greater police presence.

  great weather.. .

  lunchtime view over moscow.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Drearyweather

  4:00

  Lawyers are unsuccessfully trying to find out exactly what human rights violations are meant.

  Lawyer are trying to clarify the point "the failure to take effective measures to prevent extremist activity." He asked whether the Ministry of Justice knew about the timely letters sent by the center of Jehovah's Witnesses to all MROs about the inclusion of certain materials in the FSEM? The Ministry of Justice knows. The next question: what, in the opinion of the Ministry, would be an effective measure? The Ministry of Justice does not know the exact answer to this question. The lawyer asks the representative of the Ministry of Justice whether there is such a criterion of extremist activity as inaction. It's obvious to everyone that there is no such criterion.
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  25

  RUSSIA: (6 April 2017) Day 2 - Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way

  by jwleaks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  tighter security today and much greater police presence.

  great weather.. .

  lunchtime view over moscow.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Drearyweather

  15:50
  The judge asks the representative of the Ministry of Justice: if there is no mention of Jehovah's Witnesses, what does this document have to do with this case.
  
  15:53
  The judge shall postpone the determination of the attachment of this document.
  
  15:54
  Lawyer Zhenkov begins to ask questions to the representative of the Ministry of Justice. The first question is: does the Justice Ministry have any information about any violations that were committed under the influence of the literature of Jehovah's Witnesses that was submitted to the FSEM. Answer from the Ministry's representative: "No, we do not have such information."
  
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  25

  RUSSIA: (6 April 2017) Day 2 - Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way

  by jwleaks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  tighter security today and much greater police presence.

  great weather.. .

  lunchtime view over moscow.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Drearyweather

  The judge asks the representative of the Ministry of Justice a counter question: why does the Ministry of Justice ask both to liquidate the legal entity and to prohibit their activities. The judge is perplexed: how can you ban what does not exist. He clarifies whether the Ministry of Justice also demands that all unregistered groups be banned. The representative of the Ministry of Justice explains that he does not ask them to be banned, because Jehovah's Witnesses did not provide the department with information about unregistered groups.

  15:16

  A new clarifying question of the judge: on what grounds does the Ministry of Justice apply a pre-judicial approach to the Management Center, if the center was not involved in participation in cases. The prejudice is applicable in the case of decisions that have already entered into force (that is, the court relies on them as already on the established fact) only with respect to the same subjects of law. Accordingly, the decisions made by the courts in respect of MPOs can not have a prejudicial effect on a centralized organization.

  
  15:17

  The representative of the Ministry of Justice argues that the Administrative Center knew about these cases, and the lawyers of the center attended them.

  
  
  
• 
  48

  RUSSIA: (5 April 2017) Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way

  by jwleaks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the trial has begun.

  the crowd on the street (see photo) is now inside and the gallery is packed.. yesterday jehovah's witnesses presented a written legal argument - "objections to the administrative claim of the ministry of justice of the russian federation" - to the supreme court of russia which, in paragraph 254, argued that if the ministry for justice liquidates and bans the activities of jehovah's witnesses then this will force individual members to renounce or abandon their religion for fear of persecution.. download legal argument (russian).

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  Drearyweather

  12:00

  The weather in Moscow is warm and sunny. Near the entrance to the court a large number of people were formed. Television journalists work. Among those present, there is a calm, friendly atmosphere. Noticeable increased security measures. Directly at the entrance there is a bus with police officers. At the entrance is a thorough search. Inside the building, no liquids are allowed to pass through. Employees of the Supreme Court, organizing hearings, carry out their work professionally and in harmony. Despite the large number of listeners, there are no failures.
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  7

  Russia - JWs Counterclaim

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the witnesses lodged a counterclaim against their lawsuit on the 30 march, 2017.their argument is that the actions of the ministry of justice against them are 'political repressions'.the following link states "in the lawsuit numerous instances are cited testifying to the fact that prosecution of jehovah's witnesses is politically motivated."http://www2.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/170402a.html.

  it is a contradiction to what they have written in their "political neutrality' leaflet which states.

  jehovah’s witnesses do not involve themselves in political issues or governmental affairs.

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  Drearyweather

  Venus,

  The difference over here is that government is criminalising JWs , not shunning them.
• 
  10

  JW representatives in the Russian Coutroom today for the hearing

  by Drearyweather in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  Drearyweather

  TheWonderofYou,

  There are two points in the case:

  1. Declare JWs as an extremist organisation

  2. Liquidate the administrative centre.

  Both are being discussed in the court. The faith and the organization both are to be declared as extremist. Bethel and other assets will be confiscated and individual JWs practicing their faith will be criminalized.
• 
  10

  JW representatives in the Russian Coutroom today for the hearing

  by Drearyweather in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  Drearyweather

  TheWonderofYou,

  The travel expenses of the high caliber brothers are supposedly payed from the donations boxes where the money of litte girls' saving boxes and widows is collected from one of the hundreds legal entities in Russia.
  

  Yes, the travel expenses of these representatives are taken from contributions of the normal publishers. However, if the ban goes through, the money collected by widows and little girls will be confiscated by the government and widows and girls can be criminalized for meeting together or practicing their beliefs.

  JW's are not forced to contribute money into the donation boxes. Many of Ex-Jws themselves say that they never put any money in the boxes while they were JW's. Its my choice as to whom I want to contribute. If the government seizes the money that i have willfully given to the WT, then thats wrong. Period.

  Have they already given up the matter and agreed to the liquidation of the watchtower in russia, why should they discuss assets and money now? Isnt the subject the religion?

  The subject here also involves the liquidation of the administrative center and the confiscation of the assets of the JW legal entities. So its obvious that discussion about the assets would take place and JW's have to be ready for that.
  

  Is there any PERSECUTION of members of the religion or more about a business activities, assets bla bla?

  Both