does this make any sense whatsoever ?
isnt jesus christ the king ?why the need for 144000 king priests to help him ?.
is he not up for the job?
anointed1, you said
"Jehovah could have given angels as co-kings and co-priests along with Jesus, but He extended this privilege to humans because they are the one who are tried with Jesus on earth who gave a fitting reply to Satan’s taunt."
This comparison is between angels and humans. According to this statement, it indicates the incapability of the angels (not Christ) to serve as rulers, hence humans were chosen.
does this make any sense whatsoever ?
isnt jesus christ the king ?why the need for 144000 king priests to help him ?.
is he not up for the job?
Revelation 5:9,10 does say "on the earth".
But there are other scriptures that suggests it would be from heaven:
Rev 3:21: New International Version
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.Matthew 19:28
Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luke 22:30:
New International Version
so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
does this make any sense whatsoever ?
isnt jesus christ the king ?why the need for 144000 king priests to help him ?.
is he not up for the job?
l asked this question to my JW friend, and here is his reply:
JW's don't believe that the 144,000 are called because Christ requires "help" or "need" to reign over earth. Jesus was a master worker with Jehovah, however it was not because Jehovah was incapable of creating and thus required Jesus help.
No where do our publications state that the the heavenly calling is due to Christ's incapability as a ruler.
The 144,000 are called due to God's mercy, undeserved kindness and it was God's purpose that obedient human beings from earth who are declared righteous be given the opportunity to share in the Kingdom Rule.
2 Tim 1:9 :
He saved us and called us with a holy calling, not because of our works, but because of his own purpose and undeserved kindness. This was given to us in connection with Christ Jesus before times long ago.
1 Peter 1:3:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
there's a lot of criticism surrounding the jw's handling of chiild abuse within their ranks with a lot of it being well deserved.
but i'm interested to know how people on here think child abuse allegations should be handled.
there's a few scenarios below, the first couple are easy then it gets a bit more complex.
Regarding mandatory reporting, I was interested to know the following details:
1. Can a concept of "Universal Mandatory Reporting" be brought into effect to curb this problem?
2. What are some reasons why certain states/countries do not have mandatory reporting law?
3. Are there studies that highlight the increase/decrease of reporting of child abuse cases in states with mandatory reporting laws vs states with no mandatory reporting laws? If reporting rates increase, how much percent of it are substantiated and how many non-substantiated?
4. In cases where individuals are legally required to report child abuse upon "reasonable suspicion" to the authorities, how many of such cases turn out to be unsubstantiated?
there's a lot of criticism surrounding the jw's handling of chiild abuse within their ranks with a lot of it being well deserved.
but i'm interested to know how people on here think child abuse allegations should be handled.
there's a few scenarios below, the first couple are easy then it gets a bit more complex.
By "solving", the parents meant that Elders should have investigated and disfellowshipped the person, without getting the police involved in the process.
The Elders did disfellowship the person, but once the police got involved, the case became public and dragged on in the courts, sadly leading to social ostracism to the girl, threats by the abuser's family members, financial strain on the family and in turn leading to a situation where no one could give timely help to the victim. All of this ended in an out of court settlement, between the Victim’s and the Accused's families.
So my point was, what should the elders do if parents do not wish that their case to go to courts?
there's a lot of criticism surrounding the jw's handling of chiild abuse within their ranks with a lot of it being well deserved.
but i'm interested to know how people on here think child abuse allegations should be handled.
there's a few scenarios below, the first couple are easy then it gets a bit more complex.
Shepherdless
You mentioned, Make it clear to the congregation that only those with the relevant clearance are allowed unaccompanied with children.
I wanted to know the impact of the clearance. I can understand the clearances for kindergartens and schools.
As a rough statistics that I read, 89% of child abuse cases are by someone the child knows (39% parents & 50% relatives/church members). How can clearances be provided to known relatives and family members? Is having an appropriate clearance a surety that that person won’t indulge in child abuse?
Regarding reporting to the police, I know of a case where Elders reported the abuse case to the police against the parent’s wishes. However due to rampant corruption in the legal system here, the case became messier day by day eventually causing much financial and emotional distress to the victim and her family. To this day, the family and many congregation members accuse the elders for not investigating and solving the case themselves and pushing their job to the Police.
we haven't heard much recently about india.
whats the current situation over there?
.
alanv
The point is the vast majority of Indians have no idea about the JW message
JW's are not unique. In reality, with over millions of deities in Hinduism itself, vast majority of Indians have no idea about their own religion, let alone a foreign American religion like JW’s. Vast majority of these Indians have no idea about the other Christian religions too, even after 2000 years of missionary and conversion activities and many Christian ministries have far more vigorous preaching methods than JW's.
A third of the world has never heard their message. This can be easily checked in the 2017 Yearbook
Yes, a third of the world has never heard their message. There are many countries in the world who have not allowed this kind of missionary activity in their country and thus probably will never hear the JW message and in fact messages of other Christian ministries too. If they allow, I feel results would be different.
The org cant say the preaching has been completed in all the earth if that is so.
Sorry, I’m not completely sure about this. Do JW’s claim that they have ‘completed’ their preaching in all the earth? I hear them saying that they have ‘reached’ to all parts of the earth. I feel there is a great difference in these two terms.
we haven't heard much recently about india.
whats the current situation over there?
.
Steve2
45,000 after more than 100 years in a land of nearly 1.5 billion is peanuts - no matter how you dress it up Drearyweather .
True, numerically, 45,000 in 1.5 billion after 100 years are peanuts. But for me, measlier is the number of other combined Christianity figures: Only 2.3% of 1.5 billion after 2,000 years of missionary activity. It fell down from 2.6% in 1971 to 2.3% in 2011 even after continuous inflow of foreign funds and foreign missionaries. A group of Bible Students broke after CT Russell's death, but they number only 2,500 now.
It is no coincidence that a good third of Witnesses live in Kerala - the state that is perhaps the most "Christianised" in all of India. JWs - like other heterodox Christian groups - ride on the coat tails of the hardwork of Christendom's missionaries - NOT their own missionaries.
In all states of India, Kerala ranks 8th in the total number of Christians. The first five most Christianized states in India have very little JW presence. In fact only 4 congregations exist in all of these states combined (Nagaland, Manipur, Meghalaya, Mizoram & Arunachal Pradesh). The branch office is located in Karnataka, which has only 1% of Christian presence (18th in line). So I find it difficult to agree that JW’s thrive only in Christianized states and were able to grow due to Christendom.
Christendom’s missionaries used the then prevalent casteism, social stigma, denial of education, religious discrimination and untouchability to convert masses to Christianity. Christendom and JW’s both were introduced to India in different ages of time (almost 2,000 years apart) and in different political and religious climates. Both did their hard work. Ultimately, now both are existing side by side in affluent metropolitan cities of India, with JW’s even reaching up to the Supreme court to enforce their rights.
But still, you are entitled to have your opinion in this matter, and I welcome it.
However, as a citizen of India and breathing the ever intolerant religious and cultural situation of the country, I still feel that JW’s have done pretty well with their numbers.
we haven't heard much recently about india.
whats the current situation over there?
.
The greatest concentration of JW's is in Kerala: around 30%.
South India has around 67% of the witnesses
Central India has around 20% and North has around 13%
Yes, preaching is done very carefully in India. In some states it is more difficult to preach than in banned middle eastern countries. It won't take long for a mob to trash you into pieces if they smell religious conversions. Even in affluent states.
we haven't heard much recently about india.
whats the current situation over there?
.
steve2,
Comparing religious membership in India is very complicated task. You are right. Adventist Church in India has around 3000+ churches and number around 917,000.
The main reason for the growth of Adventist Church in India is because of the educational institutions and health institutes started by the Adventist churches during their early missionary stages from foreign contributions. Church structure began to grow around clinics and hospitals founded by early missionaries.
Not to disrespect the Adventist movement - In India, it is easy to recruit people in your denomination if you promise to provide them material benefits.
Majority of the Christian denominations in the country did this to increase and sustain membership. Some local churches provide monthly stipend to the families in their churches to avoid them falling prey to other Christian denominations. In fact, in remote areas, when JW’s approach them during door-to-door knocking, people simply say that they are ready to become JW’s if they give them more money than what their current churches give.
In a remote area, around 50 people turned out for a JW memorial expecting to get a free meal, since a zealous publisher invited them for ‘the Lord’s evening meal’.
In my opinion, with zero charity, zero schools, zero medical institutions, its impressive that JW’s managed around 45,000 in a country like India. No wonder, Lloyd Barry once called Edwin Skinner (JW British Missionary in India) as the ‘dean of missionaries’.
