FSEM: Federal List of Extremist Materials
LRO: Local Religious Organisation (Individual congregations or groups of congregations registered as separate legal entities)
Management Center: Russian Branch Office of JW's.
Drearyweather
JoinedPosts by Drearyweather
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51
RUSSIA: (7 April 2017) Day 3 - Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way
by Drearyweather inin moscow, a soft rain drizzles.
along the facade of the supreme court stretched a large queue of those who came to the process as listeners.
a large bus is parked at the courthouse on povarskaya street, full of obviously bored police officers.
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51
RUSSIA: (7 April 2017) Day 3 - Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way
by Drearyweather inin moscow, a soft rain drizzles.
along the facade of the supreme court stretched a large queue of those who came to the process as listeners.
a large bus is parked at the courthouse on povarskaya street, full of obviously bored police officers.
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Drearyweather
10:20 am
The judge asks the representative of the Ministry of Justice on the basis of which they claim that the financing of the LRO by the Management Center is precisely the financing of "extremist activity"? What is objectively proved? If nothing, then what are the claims of the Ministry of Justice based on?
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51
RUSSIA: (7 April 2017) Day 3 - Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way
by Drearyweather inin moscow, a soft rain drizzles.
along the facade of the supreme court stretched a large queue of those who came to the process as listeners.
a large bus is parked at the courthouse on povarskaya street, full of obviously bored police officers.
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Drearyweather
10:10 am
The court tries to understand which rule of law the Justice Ministry relies on, arguing that local religious organizations (MPOs) are "structural subdivisions" of the Management Center. The Justice Ministry believes that this is logical, since organizations read the same literature and are related to each other. The court asks how, in this case, this meets the requirements of legal certainty. Will this not violate the right to freedom of religion enshrined in the European Convention? After all, it was denied the involvement of 395 organizations to participate in the case as co-defendants. Questions remain without distinct answers.
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51
RUSSIA: (7 April 2017) Day 3 - Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way
by Drearyweather inin moscow, a soft rain drizzles.
along the facade of the supreme court stretched a large queue of those who came to the process as listeners.
a large bus is parked at the courthouse on povarskaya street, full of obviously bored police officers.
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Drearyweather
9am
In Moscow, a soft rain drizzles. Along the facade of the Supreme Court stretched a large queue of those who came to the process as listeners. A large bus is parked at the courthouse on Povarskaya Street, full of obviously bored police officers. Such a loud process seems to be a riotous event for court employees. However, surprising calm, which, despite obvious excitement, is preserved by hundreds of believers, convinces better than any words that extremism is not about them.
9:40 am
The Great Hall of the Supreme Court is gradually filled with listeners and journalists.
10:00 am
The process began with questions of the court to the representative of the Ministry of Justice. The court is trying to understand that the plaintiff charges the Management Center with an episode from 2014, when, according to the ministry, the Management Center imported a publication to Russia, which would later be recognized as extremist materials. The court is interested in the question of how the religious organization could know that the book will be recognized as extremist if it is not in the FSEM.
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11
What criteria does Russia use to label a religion as extremist?
by sparky1 incheck this out on the russian ministry of justice webpage.
the governing body is going to have to do some fancy footwork to get around this criteria:.
http://minjust.ru/deyatelnost-v-sfere-nekommercheskih-organizaci/missionerskaya-.
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Drearyweather
AnonyMous,
From yesterday's trial:
3:20:
The Ministry of Justice in its suit confirms the necessity of liquidation of religious organizations due to the fact that organizations, in their opinion, violate the rights of citizens. The court asks the representative of Borisov the next clarifying question: which rights of citizens are violated? Borisova says that this is the right to receive medical treatment. According to their data, organizations prevent citizens from receiving medical treatment. In response to a rumble in the hall, the judge asks those present to restrain emotions. The judge asks if the Ministry of Justice has evidence of their allegations about medical treatment. The Ministry of Justice is not ready to provide them. The judge is again puzzled, because the Ministry of Justice most recently conducted a large-scale inspection of Jehovah's Witnesses and, if such facts were, they should have been identified.
4:19
Zhenkov clarifies whether it is known to the Ministry of Justice that literature has not been imported to Russia for two years. The Ministry of Justice knows this. Then there is a natural question, why exactly in 2017 the Ministry of Justice raised the issue of liquidation. The Ministry of Justice can not provide facts confirming that during the last 12 months the Management Center distributed "extremist" literature.
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14
Victims of "political repression"
by biblexaminer inpolitical repression is the persecution of an individual or group within society for political reasons, particularly for the purpose of restricting or preventing their ability to take part in the political life of a society thereby reducing their standing among their fellow citizens.[1][2].
so, the governing bastards feel that putin is trying to keep jehovah's witnesses out of politics.
interesting.... all the russians had to do is to ask watchtower one question.
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Drearyweather
restricting or preventing their ability to take part in the political life of a society thereby reducing their standing among their fellow citizens.[1][2]
In constitutional terms, active political and social life of the society does not mean just being a member of a political party. It means fostering an environment where all citizens have equal opportunities without discrimination. The state or the government is a part of the social and political life of the society, because the constitution gives rights to the government. The citizens of the country have the complete right to choose which government or party they want to be in their life. Other way, citizens also have a right not to choose to be a part of a political party. There are loads of people apart from JW's who don't have to do anything with politics.
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70
Apologists saying that the JWs shouldn't be banned, what the hell!??
by Crazyguy init's been brought to my attention that there are xjw that say they support the witnesses and don't think russia should ban them.
i would just like to remind all of you that jws are guilty of murder, causing higher rates of suicide, covering up child molestation, and keeping members in prisoned because if they leave they loose family, financial support, possible employment etc.. sure their not strapping bombs to their chests but they easily get members to kill themselves with their blood policies.
they are an extremist group!
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Drearyweather
biblexaminer, regarding your comment:
You must first be viewed as having a "political position" or "party" before you can be designated as suffering "political repression".
Come on! You don't need to be part of a political party to become a victim of political repression. If a citizen is deprived of his basic rights or brutalized by a ruling state, you become a victim of political or state repression, irrespective of your political stand.
Read about the political repression undertaken by Stalin during The Great Purge in 1937-38. It was not just against some communist parties, but also against millions of peasants and ethnic minorities. Nearly 1-2 million people died during the purge and the red terror attack. All these people are rightly designated as victims of political repression. They were normal citizens.
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14
Victims of "political repression"
by biblexaminer inpolitical repression is the persecution of an individual or group within society for political reasons, particularly for the purpose of restricting or preventing their ability to take part in the political life of a society thereby reducing their standing among their fellow citizens.[1][2].
so, the governing bastards feel that putin is trying to keep jehovah's witnesses out of politics.
interesting.... all the russians had to do is to ask watchtower one question.
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Drearyweather
biblexaminer,
It would be good if we go beyond the Wikipedia definition and read about the meaning of Political or State Repression from legal sources.
"Political or State Repression is the application of state power that violate First Amendment–type rights, due process in the enforcement and adjudication of law, and personal integrity or security."
- The Annual Review of Political Science 2007
"Political Repression is often evidenced in the form of human rights violations, surveillance abuse, police brutality, imprisonment, involuntary settlement, stripping of citizen's rights, lustration and violent action such as the murder, summary executions, torture, forced disappearance and other extrajudicial punishment of political activists, dissidents, or general population. Where political repression is approved and coordinated by the state, it may represent state terrorism, genocide, politicide or crimes against humanity."
-US Legal Definition
Any citizen whose basic human rights are violated by the government or the state, he becomes a victim of Political Repression. A person can remain neutral with regards to political activities; but if he is a citizen who pays taxes and has legal verifiable public records, then he is entitled for his civil liberties.
If the citizen, regardless of his political affiliation, is deprived of his basic rights by the ruling state, he becomes a victim of political repression. You don't need to be a part of a political party to be termed as a victim of political repression.
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70
Apologists saying that the JWs shouldn't be banned, what the hell!??
by Crazyguy init's been brought to my attention that there are xjw that say they support the witnesses and don't think russia should ban them.
i would just like to remind all of you that jws are guilty of murder, causing higher rates of suicide, covering up child molestation, and keeping members in prisoned because if they leave they loose family, financial support, possible employment etc.. sure their not strapping bombs to their chests but they easily get members to kill themselves with their blood policies.
they are an extremist group!
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Drearyweather
OrphanCrow
No. They didn't have to "change the blood doctrine" because it wasn't there when they got banned.
The blood doctrine (concerning blood transfusions) was developed, in and around 1945,
What about the witnesses in restricted countries now (30 or so lands where they are outlawed). May be like Eritrea? Have JW's abandoned their blood doctrine there?
the point that I was trying to make is, JW's won't change their policies if they are banned. They will go underground and control their members, the way they did during the WW2 days.
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70
Apologists saying that the JWs shouldn't be banned, what the hell!??
by Crazyguy init's been brought to my attention that there are xjw that say they support the witnesses and don't think russia should ban them.
i would just like to remind all of you that jws are guilty of murder, causing higher rates of suicide, covering up child molestation, and keeping members in prisoned because if they leave they loose family, financial support, possible employment etc.. sure their not strapping bombs to their chests but they easily get members to kill themselves with their blood policies.
they are an extremist group!
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Drearyweather
So I understand you to support watchtower trampling my right to practice my religion and exercise free speech....
No. I'm not supporting the Watchtower. In my post I clearly mentioned that Government should adopt other ways to punish the WT, but not banning and criminalizing rank and file. If you are disfellowshipped, is that added in your public records? When you go for interviews, does your employer verify your religious status by contacting your local congregation? Many of us move ahead in life after getting disfellowhipped and try to forget the past. But thats not the case with a criminal record. If the ban goes through in Russia, individual JW's risk getting criminal records which goes with them wherever they go. This is wrong and is more dangerous than the Watchtower shunning.
Ah, hell yes it does. If they are banned then they can't cause me to be shunned. And if I sue their sorry backside for defamation then the judge isn't going to site religious privilege to avoid getting involved.
so do you mean that if Russia bans JW's, the witnesses will start socializing with disfellowshipped and disassociated ones? Will they change their policies? i and my family have spent considerable time in a country where JW's are banned/restricted , and yes, nothings different with regards to policies and doctrines.