Drearyweather

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Posts by Drearyweather

• 
  184

  Outcome - Banned in Russia - Final

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just watched the live feed from the russian court room and followed the updates on the russian exjw forum.. just waiting for confirmation from other sources...but, it looks like the final (and expected) result is:.

  banned.

  which means that the wts property in russia now belongs to the russian state..

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  Drearyweather

  Interesting point about the Russian courts and the Orthodox Church in the NY Times article:

  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/20/world/europe/russia-bans-jehovahs-witnesses.html

  Russia Bans Jehovah’s Witnesses, Calling It an Extremist Group

  MOSCOW — Russia’s Supreme Court on Thursday declared Jehovah’s Witnesses, a Christian denomination that rejects violence, an extremist organization, banning the group from operating on Russian territory and putting its more than 170,000 Russian worshipers in the same category as Islamic State militants.

  The ruling, which confirmed an order last month by the Justice Ministry that the denomination be “liquidated” — essentially eliminated or disbanded — had been widely expected. Russian courts rarely challenge government decisions, no matter what the evidence.

  ;

  ;

  
  

  The denomination suffered relentless persecution by the KGB during the Soviet era, and after more than a decade of relative peace following the collapse of Communism in 1991, it again became a target for official harassment under a 2002 anti-extremism law. That law makes it illegal for any group, other than the Orthodox Church and other traditional religious institutions, to proclaim itself as offering a true path to religious or political salvation.
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  184

  Outcome - Banned in Russia - Final

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just watched the live feed from the russian court room and followed the updates on the russian exjw forum.. just waiting for confirmation from other sources...but, it looks like the final (and expected) result is:.

  banned.

  which means that the wts property in russia now belongs to the russian state..

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  Drearyweather

  As posted in here earlier too, banning religious organizations don't work. Its true that the WT as an organization will be dismantled and no legal structure will exist from now.

  However, in religious groups, its the people who make the organization, not the other way round. WT is not a strict corporate entity with employees moving out to other companies if their organization collapses.

  WT is an ideology more than just a legal entity. You legalize them, they flourish. You ban them, they go underground. Banning them does not assure that their adherents would abandon their beliefs and adopt others.

  For a greater part of their life, my parents were active JW's in a banned country. Expats though. No branch office, no kingdom halls, no singing, no contributions, no literature (except for those brought in by expats who got them from their home countries). No legal entity existed. Occasionally a circuit overseer would fly in and have a 1 day visit with the publishers and flew back the same evening. However, core beliefs remained the same. Disfellowshippings were announced, Elders flew in to neighboring countries to attend schools. Expats went to their home countries for their medical treatment and locals prepared legal affidavits that they personally wish not to take blood during treatments. Baptisms were conducted secretly at homes or crowded swimming pools. Expats reported their preaching activity to their home country, etc.

  Religious groups can be banned, but ideologies cannot. People die as martyrs for their beliefs rather than just compromise with the ruling state. Countless ISIS soldiers died for their insane ideology, whereas scores of Christians were massacred by ISIS in genocide for being Christians. Patriotism and Religious fundamentalism has given rise to unimaginable list of such martyrs, who are willing to bear persecution and die for their beliefs, no matter how nonsense we find it to be.
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  44

  Can you believe the opening song at the memorial tonight?!

  by Indian Larry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  did anybody (who went to the memorial) notice the opening song?.

  keep in mind that this is the most important night of the year for the witnesses.

  it is supposed to be all about jesus christ.

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  Drearyweather

  Listener:

  The concept of a JW memorial is not a regular service eulogizing the death of Jesus Christ, as we do for a family member who has passed away. For JW's and for that matter, other Christians believe that Jesus was resurrected on the third day and has been alive in heaven since.

  The primary purpose is explaining the significance of Christ's death. But, it is also called as "Lord's Evening Meal" as mentioned in 1 Cor 11:20. Paul reiterates the concept of 'new covenant' at 1 Cor 11:25, and hence during JW memorials, the concept of the new covenant and the anointed ones are mentioned. Thus, those who are a part of the new covenant are also mentioned and remembered in the memorial.

  http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2013926

  Since the Governing Body is included in the covenant, they are remembered constantly by the rank and file because the Governing Body keeps reminding them to do so.

  Yes, JWs are told to remember the GB. However, in the post we are discussing about the new song used in the memorial, and in my reply to ambersun, I have mentioned that the new song is not just about the GB but about all the 144,00 anointed ones. The theme scripture of the song is 1 Pet 2:9 where the words are mentioned, "Special Possession", "Chosen race". If you read the JW publications, this scripture is applied to all the 144,000, not just the GB.

  http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012046
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  44

  Can you believe the opening song at the memorial tonight?!

  by Indian Larry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  did anybody (who went to the memorial) notice the opening song?.

  keep in mind that this is the most important night of the year for the witnesses.

  it is supposed to be all about jesus christ.

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  Drearyweather

  He has simply put you in the same category of condemnation by the Watchtower organization that all us so called 'apostates' are, including our own families and himself personally.

  Great reasoning. Let me ask you something:

  What prompted him to suddenly jump into the discussion that I was having with another poster about the memorial song and start a tirade against me and family being slaughtered? I am not twisting his words, just stating what he has written: and also help slaughter billions, including you and your family.

  Another point, the Watchtower does not teach the idea that if one family member becomes apostate, the other practicing JW family is also destroyed at Armageddon.
  
  
  
• 
  44

  Can you believe the opening song at the memorial tonight?!

  by Indian Larry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  did anybody (who went to the memorial) notice the opening song?.

  keep in mind that this is the most important night of the year for the witnesses.

  it is supposed to be all about jesus christ.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  Drearyweather

  .Yet I doubt Funchback is condemning you to this catastrophe but simply pointing out using "Watchtower" reasoning what they claim your fate is and possibly that of some of your family members.

  I had not asked any question or was not having any argument with Funchback, for him to use WT reasoning to decide the fate of my family. I was simply speaking to ambersun about the memorial song, nothing else.

  And what did I actually say to Funchback, for him to use this reasoning against me and my family?
• 
  44

  Can you believe the opening song at the memorial tonight?!

  by Indian Larry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  did anybody (who went to the memorial) notice the opening song?.

  keep in mind that this is the most important night of the year for the witnesses.

  it is supposed to be all about jesus christ.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Drearyweather

  .Yet I doubt Funchback is condemning you to this catastrophe but simply pointing out using "Watchtower" reasoning what they claim your fate is and possibly that of some of your family members.

  I had not asked any question or was not having any argument with Funchback, for him to use WT reasoning to decide the fate of my family. I was simply speaking to ambersun about the memorial song, nothing else.

  Was I discussing about Armageddon?

  And what did I actually say to Funchback, for him to use this reasoning against me and my family?
• 
  44

  Can you believe the opening song at the memorial tonight?!

  by Indian Larry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  did anybody (who went to the memorial) notice the opening song?.

  keep in mind that this is the most important night of the year for the witnesses.

  it is supposed to be all about jesus christ.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Drearyweather

  .
• 
  44

  Can you believe the opening song at the memorial tonight?!

  by Indian Larry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  did anybody (who went to the memorial) notice the opening song?.

  keep in mind that this is the most important night of the year for the witnesses.

  it is supposed to be all about jesus christ.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Drearyweather

  It is interesting how you find Funchbacks comments to be extreme, do you think it would be prudent of the Watchtower to be more mature, discreet, respectful and polite when people choose not to obey their instructions?

  I do not agree with the WT view that all non-JW's will perish in Armageddon. Now just because the WT uses this teaching against non-JW's, does this give Funchback the liberty to comment on me and the fate of my family?

  He could have simply put his views about the point I was making rather than directly go on a hostile mode towards me and my family. Had I said anything against him personally or against any other poster?

  I was just replying to one poster about the song he was speaking about, not about who is getting destroyed at Armageddon and who is not. It is not polite or respectful to speak about the slaughtering of one's family especially when that person has seen 2 of his close family members die in front of him.
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  44

  Can you believe the opening song at the memorial tonight?!

  by Indian Larry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  did anybody (who went to the memorial) notice the opening song?.

  keep in mind that this is the most important night of the year for the witnesses.

  it is supposed to be all about jesus christ.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Drearyweather

  Funchback,

  For your info, I was having a conversation with ambersun, not with you or other posters.

  Now, since this is a discussion forum, if you disagree with what I said, you could have just stated your disagreement or your arguments for it.

  But instead, you just jumped on the wagon and went on a personal tirade against me.

  If that was not enough, you said that since I am associating with apostates here, me and my family would be slaughtered at Armageddon. THERE WAS SIMPLY NO NEED FOR YOU TO COMMENT ON MY FAMILY. I was just explaining my point to a poster, not abusing or arguing with anyone here.

  I don't know from where did you get this idea that if one member of the family posts on such forums, the entire JW family is doomed to death. There are posters here who have active JW family members

  If you disagree with anyone, simply put your opinion here and have a constructive discussion, rather than personally attacking the poster.

  Take some time and read the posts of other senior posters too and learn how they have stated their disagreements.

  For the matter, ambersun, (with whom I was discussing the point) was extremely respectful and polite. Learn from him.

  
  
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  16

  Russian Ban exposed but not THE ARC...WHY?

  by tor1500 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just your thoughts....i've been all over this site, everyone says, that if jehovah was backing the org.

  then why so many things happen in the org.

  child abuse, shunning, and so on....but my question or thought is why is the banning of witnesses all over the media, but the arc isn't wasn't picked up in the media, like this (oh little leaks here and there, but nothing major) nothing like the nyt or any major media venue where the friends would see it and couldn't deny it, even if they wanted to....why does the media care more about banning witnesses than child abuse...i know even if the arc was exposed many of the friends would stay, but would be shamed, because they talked about other religions...or maybe jehovah is bringing the org.

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  Drearyweather

  Great comments...I like the one where someone at the NYT is a witness or knows someone...here's a thought, could the org. be paying not to have it published...would you put it past them ?

  This is fine for informal discussions.

  But for the benefit of lurkers here: As mentioned, this is just a theory and would need facts to back it up. We don't want to contribute towards the rumor mill and look more stupid for just assuming things to prove our point.