Posts by Drearyweather

17

JW leadership hypocrisy 1975

by Half banana in

it is felt that there is one law for the rich and another for the little people who are made to toe the line.

money equals power and it is a sad historical fact of humanity that where there is power there is abuse.. andersoninfo a few days ago produced the facts here that in 1975 the watchtower had spent nearly 2 million dollars to buy the neo baroque building in new york known as the towers.

when they sold it recently for 200 million dollars they made a profit of more than 10,000%.

Drearyweather

HalfBanana,

Regarding your comments,

they made a profit of more than 10,000%

JW org invested heavily in property looking for future profit.

Most JW's are fine with WT selling properties and making money. Many believe that it is Jehovah's will.

When we say 'profits', the real waking up will happen only if someone is able to prove that individual members/directors of the WT Corporation are making personal wealth out of this money. Do we know the net worth of these directors or the GB members? Is there a proof of misappropriation of donated funds? Do we know if any current individual GB member has used these funds for building his own wealth or luxury property in any part of the world? (Beth Sarim sort of)

Did Raymond Franz, mention anything in this books about any type of fraud where profits were used for invidual wealth creation?

Such type of information will help a big section of JW's to wake up. Till then everything that comes in the WT's cash coffers is a proof of Jehovah's blessing.

32

My unbelieving husband was offended by the WatchTower just studied

by Isambard Crater in

it was the paragraph talking about people who don't want to be j.w's being executed, and it being an act of compassion from jehovah towards his witnesses..

Drearyweather

Para 10, Page 10-11 September 2017 Study edition:

The time is coming when he will execute judgment on all those who refuse to obey him. (2 Thess. 1:6-10) That will not be the time for him to show compassion for those whom he has judged to be wicked. Rather, executing them will be an appropriate expression of God’s compassion for the righteous, whom he will preserve.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2017562

25

In theory, can one be disfellowshipped for attempted suicide?

by Saename in

so i was recently reading the reasons for disfellowshipping as listed in shepherd the flock of god.

the handbook is available online here: https://thetruthofjehowaswittness.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/jehovas-vitner.pdf.. on page 59, point #4, it lists attempted suicide as a reason for disfellowshipping.

has it ever been removed?

Drearyweather

Morpheus,

regarding your comment:

@dreary, you are 100% wrong. It indeed a df’ing offense in and of itself, with no other sin involved

Just carefully read the subtitle in page 58, before point 2: "Offences Requiring Judicial Decisions." The Title is not "Offences Requiring Disfellowshipping.".

This is because not all judicial decisions end up in disfellowshipping.

The first sentence of para 2 says: "Listed below are offences that may require judicial review".

The list given on pages 58- forward are not the offences liable for disfellowshipping, but ones where judicial review may be required.

Going to point 4. Attempted Suicide: The last sentence says, "In most cases, a judicial hearing may not be required". Thus in many cases, no disfellowshipping is required.

So, I stand by what I said: Attempted suicide may be a reason for Judicial review. But it is not a direct basis for disfellowshipping. A person is not disfellowshipped simply because he attempted suicide.

I personally know of 3 such cases in my circuit, who attempted suicide due to financial/property dispute reasons. None of them were disfellowshipped.

5

Chain of “truths”

by venus in

1) god gives more wisdom to solomon to become the wisest ever lived on earth.. 2) using this “higher”wisdom, he solved a problem involving two women who claimed ownership of a child looking at the facial expression of the dishonest woman.

* his ruling revealed that ‘a loving mother would not permit her child to be killed’ (1 king 3:27).

this ruling reportedly rooted at the “higher wisdom” given to solomon by god actually backfires on god whose core quality is love and yet he sent his son to be murdered for the betterment of mankind—a thing which no parents can teach their children because it would shock them.. 3) if jesus really came to be murdered and thus “to take away the sin of the world” (john 1:29), he would have used his superhuman skills to explain this incomprehensible teaching (killing the innocent removes the sins of the sinners).

Drearyweather

I don't agree with most of the points you have mentioned above. However, regarding the following point:

He sent His son to be murdered for the betterment of mankind—a thing which no parents can teach their children because it would shock them.

What do you think about the fact the many parents send their children or support their child's decision to join the military, knowing that they are putting their child's life at stake? As they know that their child could die in the battlefield? All soldiers who die in the battlefield are innocent. More like killing the innocent to save our lives.

Do you consider this as parents sending their children to be murdered?

110

Exjw activists protesting inside a Kingdom Hall today!

by Crazyguy in

spoonfed nomore, has uploaded a video on his youtube site, of exjw activists protesting inside a kingdom hall during this sunday meeting.

several people speak out.

if some one can put a link on here that would be awesome, i can’t figure out how to do it with an i phone.

Drearyweather

Ridiculous.

They barge in a kingdom hall full of families, small children and start shouting, "My ex-husband was a pedophile..", "I was raped", "I lost my virginity"...and so on...

And at the end, outside the kingdom hall, they were saying:

"We care for you guys". "We care for your children" "We were very respectful to you" and so on...

Wow, is that the apostate way of waking up a JW?

Wouldn't have made any impact if was there in that hall. My non-JW father would have actually punched one of those guys if they had started protesting that way in front of my kids.

19

Who is Jesus?

by Jarred K in

new to the forum.

hope today finds everyone well.

i’m not super familiar with jw theology concerning jesus.

Drearyweather

But I understand, at least surfacely, that Jesus is not regarded as God

JW's do not consider Jesus as the Almighty God. For them, he is a mighty god, who has divine characteristics, but not to the point of being a supreme sovereign.

isn’t it rather confusing that the text goes onto describe Him as creator?

No. Jw's teach that he shared in the production/creation of the world and its things. Not the creator, nor a co-creator, but a master worker. Psalms 36:9 says the the almighty God is the source of life and in Matthew 19:4, Jesus gives the credit of creation to God, not to himself.

25

In theory, can one be disfellowshipped for attempted suicide?

by Saename in

so i was recently reading the reasons for disfellowshipping as listed in shepherd the flock of god.

the handbook is available online here: https://thetruthofjehowaswittness.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/jehovas-vitner.pdf.. on page 59, point #4, it lists attempted suicide as a reason for disfellowshipping.

has it ever been removed?

Drearyweather

On page 59, point #4, it lists attempted suicide as a reason for disfellowshipping. Has it ever been removed?

No, it has not been removed. However, it has a line at the end of the point saying that in most of the attempted suicide cases, judicial hearings are not required.

Have the Jehovah's Witnesses added some hand-written notes to this point?

No policy letter has been issued on this point since 2010. No marginal notes either.

In theory, can one still be disfellowshipped for attempted suicide?

Suicide/Attempted suicide in itself is not a disfellowshipping offence. However, if the attempt for suicide was made to run away from a gross wrongdoing, the wrongdoing will form a reason for DF'ing. In some countries, attempted suicide is still punishable by law. See Section 309 of Indian Penal Code which criminalizes attempted suicide. Not all attempted suicide cases are due to depression or mental illness.

I noticed that they don't call these reasons "reasons for disfellowshipping" but rather "reasons for forming a judicial committee." Even though the two seem to be the same?

No, these two are not the same. Not all Judicial Committees end up in a disfellowshipping verdict. There are many cases which just end up in a judicial reproof of 3/6/12 months or so.

23

Irish Elders deleted by Watchtower for reporting child sex abuse allegation to police

by Diogenesister in

two elders have been deleted by watchtower for reporting an allegation of child sexual abuse to the police, contrary to watchtower orders (a jw paedophile with a history, apparently).

when the british branch discovered what the elders had done they arranged for 3 elders to fly over to ireland, at the congregations expense no less, to hold a special jc for the ' rogue' congregation elders.

one elder and the cobe were deleted, two were allowed to continue.

Drearyweather

Well Drearyweather perhaps some people in your religion actually have a conscience and think it's wrong to sexually abuse children. Perhaps they believe they should inform the authorities when a crime has been committed, which is what your Bible says, you should be obedient to the governments because they are placed in their positions by God.

Xanthippe, This is what happens when you try to read what I have not written.

No where have I implied that a person should not report child abuse to the police. I am not discussing the moral aspect of child abuse.

My point is should an elder continue as an elder if he feels that the policies of the WT are not right? Should he go against the directives of the WT and expect no reprisals in return?

Remember the Bible? Or do you just obey those seven men in America?

The answer is very simple. A JW has to do both. If you are an appointed elder, you receive the Shepherding textbook and are expected to read it thoroughly. Regarding what elders are to do, Chapter 2, the two bullet points under main point 1 says:

1. Let the Bible be your guide.

2. Obey direction coming from agencies used by the "faithful and discreet slave"....

There you are. The four elders (including 1 COBOE) have themselves agreed to obey the 'seven men in America'. So if you don't want to follow them, you don't accept the position of an elder. If you accept, you automatically agree to abide by their policies and also agree that the 'seven men' can delete you for non-compliance.

Remember, WT is not a religion, it's a corporation. It has its own rules and regulations. Elders who truly follow their conscience will not continue as elders even after knowing all their policies. You may be a minor when you are baptized, but you are mature enough when appointed as an elder.

The elders in this case have done the right thing. However, they should expect to face the consequences from the WT for not following the policies. That's my point.

23

Irish Elders deleted by Watchtower for reporting child sex abuse allegation to police

by Diogenesister in

two elders have been deleted by watchtower for reporting an allegation of child sexual abuse to the police, contrary to watchtower orders (a jw paedophile with a history, apparently).

when the british branch discovered what the elders had done they arranged for 3 elders to fly over to ireland, at the congregations expense no less, to hold a special jc for the ' rogue' congregation elders.

one elder and the cobe were deleted, two were allowed to continue.

Drearyweather

Drearyweather elders are required to inform the branch first about allegations of child abuse before going to the police even though sexual assault is a crime.

So they never informed the WT? Why? Their conscience didn't allow?

They already knew that elders are supposed to inform the legal department first. So if your conscience doesn't allow you to follow this directive, how is it allowing you to continue as an elder in the first place? An elder is bound to come into this scenario one day or the other.

An elder knows that he has to follow the directives in the elders book and the policy letters. If he believes that the procedures are incorrect and inhuman, he has to either resign/step down himself or be ready to be deleted later.

23

Irish Elders deleted by Watchtower for reporting child sex abuse allegation to police

by Diogenesister in

two elders have been deleted by watchtower for reporting an allegation of child sexual abuse to the police, contrary to watchtower orders (a jw paedophile with a history, apparently).

when the british branch discovered what the elders had done they arranged for 3 elders to fly over to ireland, at the congregations expense no less, to hold a special jc for the ' rogue' congregation elders.

one elder and the cobe were deleted, two were allowed to continue.

Drearyweather

contrary to Watchtower orders

not following company directives

What exactly were these orders and directives which they did not follow?