Posts by nibbled

21

Baptized

by nibbled in

how old were you when you were baptized?.

.

i was 12 years old..

nibbled

@coffee_black 8 years old?!?! Wow. As a JW? Wow. Sooo young!!! I'm surprised they let you!

I find the whole thing about the WT being a corporation and our baptism basically a formalization of a legal relationship is disturbing. Since I'm new, not sure if that's something that was already discussed... don't mean to bore others, but just mentioning.

I've come across folks talking about how being a minor means that you're not able to enter into contract, thus it's like getting married and lying about your age as a minor.

32

Yehowah, the divine name known by the Watchtower, but not used.

by nibbled in

(yeho?wah); gr., ?

the participle ho?weh is from the root verb ha?wah, related to the divine name, yehowah.. .

heb., yehowah.

nibbled

@HintOfLime you know, it's funny. I don't know quite how to interact so that it doesn't become a debate. For instance, that "Y" predates "J" by more than 2,000 years is simply fact. (This part of the discussion was on another thread.) So I offered what I knew of linguistics and research for those interested, but ended up in a debate about "J". The sound for "J" didn't even exist until after the letter came to evolve from the I.

I don't think that he requires that we know how to pronounce it, otherwise he'd have ensure we knew how. He's not a Catch 22 kind of god. However, that we know how to pronounce it comes from the names which bore his name that were passed down through all these generations. They evolved over time (studies of etymology I find fasincating!) but those evolutions have been passed down, so that going back to the start and with the various data points we're able to put together what is and is not likely.

I had wanted to share. (Although, frankly, I was stupid of me to post the email here. That was the "are you kidding me?!?" moment with my parents when I found that the name that came to be out of all my research was not only known by the Watchtower but printed in the reference bible and is searchable on the WOL, and that they've known all along! Of course, I couldn't search for it until I knew it, but I'm not bitter about the journey that brought me through to the answer, I'm upset that the hid it behind "Jehovah" which is wrong on so many levels, besides being blasphemous and the description of two gods of ancient Babylon.)

Also, just a note about "the bronze age". Most people don't realize that that's a terrible way of referring to it. There were many cultures who overlapped. Cultures were defined by Iron or Bronze, etc, but that wasn't a distinct age. They overlapped. They lived in the same age.

@Phizzy We should become pals. I can send you a PM. I'm a believer but am non-religious. I very much hope to encourage those leaving the WT not to enter into someother "where". It's not "where" but "who" that matters—At least that's what Dave Matthews always says.

Apologies. I was grumpy last night. I'll try to keep my smile going.

109

San Francisco or Bay Area Members?

by nibbled in

jw
friends

i did a search and came up with some posts related to san francisco, but i couldn't figure out how to find more recent onesthey were from nearly a dozen years ago!

i was wondering if anyone lives around sf, as well as if anyone is around my age?

i'm early 30's.

nibbled

Don't mind me, I'm just admiring my ruby slippers, though I prefer tea parties with wonderful hats and rabbits instead of tin can men or scratchy ones with no heart.

I just find the hugs are better when warm.

109

San Francisco or Bay Area Members?

by nibbled in

jw
friends

i did a search and came up with some posts related to san francisco, but i couldn't figure out how to find more recent onesthey were from nearly a dozen years ago!

i was wondering if anyone lives around sf, as well as if anyone is around my age?

i'm early 30's.

nibbled

You know OTOW I'm a bit peeved. Not sure why on my threads you're harrassing her. Can you do it elsewhere? You killed the conversation I was enjoying. I can't wait to meet Shelby's 11 other personalities. At least they have personality.

Btw with great mischief it occurs to me that it'd be fun to tackle you with all my separate social media personalities. All in good fun my friend. Keep an eye out for an army of virtual women. :)

but please, pick on Shelby Shirley and Sybil elsewhere so at least you're not busting up my convo, or I'll take to bustin' your balls. ;)

73

Who is the Israel of God? Used one in scripture, claimed by Christians everywhere!

by nibbled in

the phrase israel of god appears only once in the scriptures, yet it is frequently used in christianity.

just who is the israel of god?.

as you consider these points, and before responding, will you please test your thinking to ensure first that you are speaking from a scripture only standpoint?

nibbled

Pterist so you "spiritualize" the restoration too? I understand why no one seems to be able to understand the events of the end of the world as we know it (your Yale ref). It's not understandable if you make the people of the new covenant the same as the restoration.

Also I'm wondering then , doesn't it make the scriptures just basically a story then, good vs evil and learn from the example?

55

Imagine if the GB called you in for questioning

by nolongerconfused in

what would you tell or ask these group of men if they called you in for a meeting?.

.

nibbled

@Listener

I grew up around the governing body members of the recently past generation.

I'd want to ask them, "Are you serious?!"

It was strange to know them, as people who told me jokes, and went to dinner with us, etc. Sort of like spiritual extra grandpas. Only, I don't get it. Did they they actually eat what they fed us? Blind and sincere, or spiritistically deluded? It's hard to find out your grandpa was a spiritual Hitler.

"The Watchtower puts out more atheists than any other religion." — I'd like a reference for that.
"Jehovah's Witnesses have the lowest retention rate of any religious tradition. Only 37% of all those who say they were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses still identify themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses." — Pew Center Research

When I "woke up", I called my mom and dad and remember yelling through the phone — I wanted her to setup a meeting with whoever was then both on the corporate board and governing body. I still do. I have been planning how it should go down, if they come after me. No reason to not use it for all the good it's worth.

7

NOT on JW.org: Breaking news Catholic abuse files opened by court order ! Jehovah's Witnesses abuse files next?

by Balaamsass in

pop culturerumorsobits .

la archbishop relieves retired cardinal of dutiesap photo: file.

court orders church to release files: the cathedral of our lady of the angels, headquarters for the roman catholic archdiocese of los angeles, on jan. 21. image2 hr ago by gillian flaccus share0tweet4emailretired cardinal roger mahony was relieved of his remaining duties at the same time as the los angeles archdiocese was releasing thousands of pages of files relating to priests accused of sex abuse.. .

nibbled

I'm pretty certain they have no "abuse files".

Meaning they've never admitted to it, therefore they don't exist.

Remember, they "recycle" your record every so many years.

However, please, tell me I'm wrong!

I was surprised, because I actually believed that they cleared your record every 7 years and recently found out that that's just what they say.

Ugh. I'm tired, point is, they'll claim they have no records to release, and yes they have.

I also understand as far as the catholic church case goes that though they'll have the records apparently statue of limitations is an issue.

31

Music you never noticed was ...

by nibbled in

jw
friends

i have friends in very cool jobs.

my world interacts quite often with music stars, and i have interesting conversations.

for instance, i was talking with the members of animal kingdom, and asked the lead singer about the lyrics i picked up while listening them perform for the group a few minutes earlier... i felt stupid because i hadn't realized the name of the song, and only had caught a few lyrics... he wrote of mephistopheles.

nibbled

Apog Here you go (click here)

O'Sister
What's wrong with your mind?
You used to be so strong and stable.

My sister
What made you fall from grace?
I'm sorry that I was not there to catch you.

What have the demons done?
What have the demons done?
With the luminous light, that once shined from your eyes.
What makes you feel so alone?
Is it the whispering ghost, that you fear the most?
But the blackness in your heart, it won't last foever
I know it's tearing you apart, but it's a storm you can weather.

O'Sister
Those lines etched in your hands,
Their hardend and rough, like a road map of sorrow.

My sister
There is a sadness on your face.
You're like a motherless child, who's longing for comfort.

What's running through your veins, that's causing you such pain?
Does it have something to do, with the pills they gave to you?
What is eating at your soul?
Was it the whispering ghost that left you out in the cold?
But the blackness in your heart, won't last forever.
I know it's tearing you apart, but it's a storm you can weather.

O'Sister
My sister
O'Sister
My siste r

Cover Your Tracks : Read lyrics to other songs on album. I like "Wash Me Clean". This is the artist I emailed the first time I heard the album. Great guy.

For the Agnostics, here's a clever lyrics one.

Time Bomb, Dave Matthews

If Martians fell from the sky
What would that do to God
Would we put the weapon down
Or aim it up at the sky
No one would believe it except the feckin' nut jobs
They'd lau gh and cry "we told you so!"

Baby when I get home
I wanna believe in Jesus
Hammer in the final nail
Help me pick up the pieces

When everything starts to fall
So fast that it terrifies you
When will you hit the wall
Are you gonna learn to fly

No one would believe it
Except for all the people
Watching as you fly away

32

Yehowah, the divine name known by the Watchtower, but not used.

by nibbled in

(yeho?wah); gr., ?

the participle ho?weh is from the root verb ha?wah, related to the divine name, yehowah.. .

heb., yehowah.

nibbled

jwfacts, ÁrbolesdeArabia sorry guys, we've been going round on this on another thread. You might be interested to catch up on that and join in the convo! Would love to have your thoughts after you've read all the posts. So sorry! You might want to read up on the history of the original Latin alphabet to classic. I was in a hefty conversation with AGuest, though she uses a different name than Jehovah, also derived from JHVH.

Personally, I'm against the "hovah" and the "J", and those that don't fulfill the 'requirements' as we have through the scriptures. If you see flaws, please let me know. Still learning. But I'm past the 17th Century English J.

Besides I hang out with my German friend who won't ever pronounce it like the "J" is 'supposed' to sound anyway, so I can't get past it anymore. I had long been aware of sounding like a foolish American, so one day I went looking for the real name. Btw, he's unbiased, he's an atheist friend (co-worker, not xJW).

What scholars in Europe who used the J? It was a fancy "I". IEHOWAH and IEOUA are valid. It's when you change the "v" and suddenly you've got Babylon (see the use of hovah in the scriptures, ref. Strong's) and our that you know that while Israel was captive to Babylon they were among people who worshipped Jeh. Thus, the Hebrew people knew who Jeh Hovah was, She was known by the Persians as "the whore". She gave women their periods and was the consort (wife) to the primary god of Zorastarism, known as the "destructive spirit". So you have the Whore of Babylon wife of the Destructive Spirit.

Huh. Imagine that. Sounds familiar. Funny thing is, if you could bring one of those Hebrews back today, they'd know who "je'hovah" is when you'd ask.

Regarding Gnostism, check out who they thought he was. The Seal of Solomon was used to seal the three-head spirit. The Horned Hunter.

As the other thread posted at top of this post notes, that the pronuciation of his name was lost is just a fallacy. His name was used in countless theophoric names in the scriptures. Those names of all those people and how to pronounce them were passed down to today. The Hebrews don't use "J" for their names in place of the "Y" either. But hey, maybe some good JW in the UK can go edit all the Wikipedia pages, quick?

While arguing may not bring you closer, ignorance takes you further away. After ending up trying to explain to people who are in love with their letter J, about the history of language, linguistics, etymologies, and that the letter and sound are simply a new fangled invention... They can't let go.

So I just smile when I'm sitting in a cafe in Europe and hear the Americans mangle the beautiful local languages, and think of Juh-ho-vah and the tower of Babel.

@Apognophos "God has many names, but the devil has many more... and with the love that my momma gave me, I'm gonna drop the devil to the floor..."

Hi @EntirelyNotPossible ;) and @james_woods — then don't worry about it. If you don't believe in forever, then you don't really have time to waste. Don't spend it on this.

Now that I've gotten my sparring in, that's the difference between faith (zero evidence, besides love; stories passed through generations) and, well, evidence. Those who have faith have the opportunity at life forever with entrance into the kingdom of heaven; those who don't but yet don't decide they KNOW not will have opportunity to know and then when they know, they can decide their course. Still opportunity at life forever, not a shabby deal. I don't understand the ever quibbling on the fencer's hanging on "just in case" he's real. There is a simple answer. The dead will be judged based on their DEEDS. Do good, regardless of where your heart leaves you in faith or faithlessness, and be judged based on your deeds. So many levels of decency, depending on your treatment of those who believe. Funny, Catch 22.

You guys who are here but don't know or no longer believe, you should pick up "God Knows" by the author of Catch 22. You'll dig it, I bet. WARNING: Language. :)

@Band on the Run — I spent months with the non-use of the name in the NT and then I figured it out. I'll send you a PM.

@Phizzy You know it's interesting. I somewhat agree. However, I believe that people should be able to be free to think. Teaching the religion of not-god is as bad as teaching the religion of god. Teach a person to think, give them the tools and access to information. But you know, striking a vulnerable person isn't so nice. And, if you're wrong, then you'll be accountable for all those you treated with the intent to push your agenda, as opposed to simply being kind and helping them to a safe space to be human, and think and make their own choice. Ah, Steinbeck, "thou mayest".

@Satanus My conclusion is that Rutherford shot himself in the foot. Gotta be careful with what spirits you listen to. Those 13th-17th century ones were up to something!

I mean, I imagine we can all agree, it takes an awful lot of ignorance to fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2 in it's entirety, all on your own, right? I guess they were too busy trying to blow the trumpets of Revelation in the right order to notice that chapter.

As for the last few posts. Well, for those who don't believe in God or living forever, like the guy who posted about my daddy not ever being resurrected, then I imagine you really ought to do something better than sitting behind a keyboard on a chat room for "Jehovah's Witnesses". Isn't that just... strange?

You do realize all you're doing is helping the cause, right? More JWs get out because they find the "apostate" stuff. Let's 50% end up agnostic 25% atheist and 25% free thinkers. All of them still think you guys are mean, unless they simply decide to join you in the bitterness.

I imagine I'd like everyone here, but I can't seem to get past the people who just seem to be down right mean.

I mean this sincerely with not the way it sounds— do you guys have a life? I mean what is it that you do besides bashing the religion you once were? Have you ever heard, "it takes one to know one?"

Do you have fun outside of this incessant flame war? Are you doing anything to enjoy the 70 and minus years you have on this gorgeous planet?

No offense, but you guys should try eating some brownies which herbs and spices. Find someone who knows how to bake them, or have them shipped from California, then try to remember when life was good. Even if life was never good, because some people have always had it beyond bad, then I still promise you that you'll find a happy place and then go chase that.

But why be here either expressing misery or being miserable?

Hmmm. I think I should stop drinking red wine and posting. It's making me care about people who could just be robots behind a screen to amuse me.

:)

I used to play Everquest. We could do that instead? Does EQ still exist? :)

21

Baptized

by nibbled in

how old were you when you were baptized?.

.

i was 12 years old..

nibbled

My Life in Jehovah’s Spirit-Directed Organization

Later, at the suggestion of a friend of the family and with the approval of the school principal, the parents decided to put the youth in a clinic for the mentally ill, thinking that psychiatric treatment would make him abandon his faith. The clinic personnel took the boy 60 miles [100 km] away in a car and injected him with huge doses of insulin and other drugs until he lost consciousness. Upon awakening, he was completely disoriented, did not know anyone, and suffered partial amnesia. After many studies the doctors could not find any mental disorder in him. But the clinic went ahead with the treatment. When conscious, the boy prayed continually to Jehovah not to abandon him and begged him for the strength to endure. Jehovah did protect him, and eventually he was released from the clinic. — Watchtower March 1, 1992

Jehovah’s Spirit-Directed Organization

Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?

The phrase "spirit directed" occurs as many time in the scriptures as the phrase "holy spirit-directed organization" occurs in the Watchtower's literature (WTDVDROM)—not once.

While the Watchtower never claims to be a "holy spirit directed organization" the literature shows 23 references to their being a "spirit-directed organization", and the references to "God's spirit-directed organization" are only found in the baptismal candidate questions used as of 1985 (quoted above).

"Only if the individual answers in the affirmative and also understands that his dedication and baptism identify him as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization can he acceptably undergo water immersion. — What Prevents You From Getting Baptized?w89 1/15 p. 13 par. 18

So we know that the Watchtower claims to be a spirit-directed organization, but has never claimed that it was "holy spirit-directed".

"There may be so-called gods both in heaven and on earth, and some people actually worship many gods and many lords. But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life." — 1 Corinthians 8:5,6

The Watchtower claims that it is "God's spirit-directed organization", yet as Paul acknowledged that there are many gods both in heaven and on earth, and some people actually worship these god's.

Since we cannot be certain that this is an organization which is directed by holy spirit, as the Watchtower themselves has never claim to be holy spirit-directed, then we must wonder which god does this spirit-directed organization belong to?

The Watchtower is clear that it is Jehovah's Spirit-Directed Organization.

Serving Along With Jehovah’s Organized People
Jehovah has a people on this earth, and he expects us to serve him along with them. This brings us to the fourth requirement. We must serve Jehovah with his spirit-directed organization.
How, though, can God’s organized people be identified? According to the standards set out in the Scriptures, they have real love among themselves, they have deep respect for the Bible, they honor God’s name, they preach about his Kingdom, and they are no part of this wicked world. (Matthew 6:9; 24:14; John 13:34, 35; 17:16, 17) There is only one religious organization on this earth that has all these marks of true Christianity—Jehovah’s Witnesses! — What Does God Require of Us? w97 1/15 p. 22

The Watchtower sets up Jehovah with his spirit-directed organization above all other religious organizations on this earth, claiming that only Jehovah's Witnesses have the marks of true Christianity.

Paul warned that the man of lawlessness "will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God." — 2 Thessalonians 2:4

Certainly if Jehovah's Witnesses feel superior to all other Christian organizations on earth, it follows Jehovah's spirit-directed organization openly "opposes and exalts itself over everything that is called God or is worshiped".

The Watchtower's world headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses are in Brooklyn, has been referred to as "Brooklyn Bethel" more than 500 times in the Watchtower literature. According to the Insight on the Scriptures book, Beth′el means "House of God", and defines temple as "A divine habitation, sacred place or sanctuary, either physical or spiritual, that is employed for worship."

Thus, in as many words, The Watchtower has defined itself as Jehovah's spirit-directed organization openly "opposes and exalts itself over everything that is called God or is worshiped" and has set itself up as Bethel (God's House or temple, his divine habitation), proclaiming itself to be God.

The Insight on the Scriptures book continues regarding the temple, "This “man of lawlessness” is an apostate, a false teacher, so he actually seats himself only in what he falsely claims to be that temple."

The Insight on the Scriptures book concludes regarding "the man of lawlessness": "By his lying teachings contrary to or superseding, as it were, the law of God, ... he is a hypocrite, a false teacher claiming to be Christian, he “sits down in the temple of The God,” that is, what such false teachers claim to be that temple."

The Bible pointed to the rise of Christendom’s clergy, describing them collectively as “the man of lawlessness” and “the son of destruction . . . whom the Lord Jesus will do away with . . . and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence.”—2 Thess. 2:3, 6-8.

According to the Watchtower, "True Christians have been separated out from the “weeds” of Christendom." — Jehovah's Witnesses do not consider themselves part of Christendom, but "invite others to 'go up' to the exalted worship of Jehovah God."

Apostates can present yet another threat to our spirituality. The apostle Paul foretold that apostasy would arise among professed Christians. (Acts 20:29, 30; 2 Thessalonians 2:3) In fulfillment of his words, after the death of the apostles, a great apostasy led to the development of Christendom. Today, there is no great apostasy taking place among God’s people [Jehovah's Witnesses]. Still, a few individuals have left our ranks, and some among them are bent on defaming Jehovah’s Witnesses by spreading lies and misinformation. A few work with other groups in organized resistance to pure worship. In doing so, they side with the very first apostate, Satan.
Some apostates are increasingly using various forms of mass communication, including the Internet, to spread false information about Jehovah’s Witnesses. As a result, when sincere individuals do research on our beliefs, they may stumble across apostate propaganda. Even some Witnesses have unwittingly exposed themselves to this harmful material. — w00 5/1 pp. 8-12

The Watchtower itself warns, "If anyone who professes to serve God relies on his own ideas instead of adhering to the Bible... he becomes “mentally diseased.”