FYI I sent you PM, and I'm looking for something for you. If I'm away, that's why. I'm trying to find something for your trip. /brb
nibbled
JoinedPosts by nibbled
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Who is the Israel of God? Used one in scripture, claimed by Christians everywhere!
by nibbled inthe phrase israel of god appears only once in the scriptures, yet it is frequently used in christianity.
just who is the israel of god?.
as you consider these points, and before responding, will you please test your thinking to ensure first that you are speaking from a scripture only standpoint?
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73
Who is the Israel of God? Used one in scripture, claimed by Christians everywhere!
by nibbled inthe phrase israel of god appears only once in the scriptures, yet it is frequently used in christianity.
just who is the israel of god?.
as you consider these points, and before responding, will you please test your thinking to ensure first that you are speaking from a scripture only standpoint?
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nibbled
@EntirelyPossible I just read your "open letter". Wow.
For some reason it reminds of a verse about short couches.
I found it. Amos 6. The chapter, book even, is God's feelings, as yours, for the GB.
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Who is the Israel of God? Used one in scripture, claimed by Christians everywhere!
by nibbled inthe phrase israel of god appears only once in the scriptures, yet it is frequently used in christianity.
just who is the israel of god?.
as you consider these points, and before responding, will you please test your thinking to ensure first that you are speaking from a scripture only standpoint?
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73
Who is the Israel of God? Used one in scripture, claimed by Christians everywhere!
by nibbled inthe phrase israel of god appears only once in the scriptures, yet it is frequently used in christianity.
just who is the israel of god?.
as you consider these points, and before responding, will you please test your thinking to ensure first that you are speaking from a scripture only standpoint?
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73
Who is the Israel of God? Used one in scripture, claimed by Christians everywhere!
by nibbled inthe phrase israel of god appears only once in the scriptures, yet it is frequently used in christianity.
just who is the israel of god?.
as you consider these points, and before responding, will you please test your thinking to ensure first that you are speaking from a scripture only standpoint?
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nibbled
Tammy and Pterist,
Paul gives a theology here of the remnant. Some of the--a lot of the Jews have not accepted that Jesus is the Messiah. Therefore, they seem to be cut off, they're like branches of an olive tree that are cut off. And the Gentiles, who are not natural branches of the olive tree, have been grafted in their place. That means that they're part of Israel now. Notice what this means.
Pterist, I am also agreeing with you regarding Israel, the branches being cut off, new branches being grafted in, and then bringing the branches cut off in as well. I don't think there is a conflict in Paul's descriptions, just a different example of the same thing.
Paul said branches would be pruned, new ones grafted, then even that the ones pruned could be grafted and as compared to the unnatural branches would take even more readily.
It's that conclusion, "that means that they're part of Israel now".
Why? Why do you say that? Please help me.
I think we all agree that the patriarchs weren't Israel nor Judah, while Jacob a.k.a. Israel, we're clear that it's Abraham's seed, of which Isaac and Jacob were descendant. Thus, I cannot understand how "that means they're part of Israel now".
How does Israel get inserted in the equation then?
Cofty said (though later it appears he and prologos amended that understanding...?):
To be a child of Abraham was to be a Jew.
That's why I put up the family tree image. To be a child of Abraham meant you could have been of one of many nations, Judah being just one. And Judah was just one of two nations of the descent of the promised seed. To become Abraham's child without conversion into the nation (adoption into covenant by circumcision) wasn't legally (nor spiritually) possible prior to Christ.
Christ appears, suddenly at his death all nations are blessed, and all are able to enter into the new covenant his sacrifice having fulfilled the old covenant.
Yet, we're not adopted as Christ's children, but his brothers and sisters of his "generation" as it were. He as a son of Abraham (in faith) our closest common relative, for those who are not of Israelite (united nation) descent.
After all this, still not Jew, not Israel.
What am I missing? Where do we not connect here? I feel like we're soooo close. I thought actually Tammy and I had same understanding until I saw that post. (Scrolling up and down is hard to keep track, threaded posts are so much easier!)
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Who is the Israel of God? Used one in scripture, claimed by Christians everywhere!
by nibbled inthe phrase israel of god appears only once in the scriptures, yet it is frequently used in christianity.
just who is the israel of god?.
as you consider these points, and before responding, will you please test your thinking to ensure first that you are speaking from a scripture only standpoint?
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nibbled
Pterist, I was raised a Witness, and was baptized for 20 years until I realized that my baptism was not valid, and that the truth was not a religion.
Thanks to the fact that the Watchtower taught me that all denominations of Christianity (of course, except them) were Christendom, synonymous for Babylon the Great, I had no where to go.
But when my mom said, but "where will you go?"
I answered, mom, the quote is "who".
I went to him.
I don't belong to any organization, never been to meetings of any religion besides that which I was raised, as a Jehovah's Witness.
I'm baptized "in the name of Jehovah, his son Jesus Christ, and the spirit-directed organization." (Matt 28:19)
I imagine that the lawyers in the room can spot all kinds of issues with that contract, so I consider it null and void in a spiritual sense, and sometimes am amused that if given the opportunity I would take it to court.
About as soon as I learned that my baptism wasn't valid, I wondered what then? And as soon as that thought settled into my mind, in the form where you are prepared to take action, the answer came.
I wonder if you know what I mean?
After my baptism, I began to learn more than I've ever learned in my entire life. 20 years being Watched by the Tower, and I never managed to learn anything in a spiritual sense. I may be complimented on my intelligence, but it's still not a comparison to this experience.
Suddenly I was taught world history, evolution of worship and the rise of religion, etc.
They always say hindsight is 20/20. I was well prepped. My footsteps have fallen where I'd not have planned to be, later to learn the significance of all I'd seen.
(Uh oh, I get into rhyming. ChannelC wasn't very fond of it.)
In any case, I lived briefly in Rome, stood in the Mithraic church which became the congregations hiding place under the shadow of the Colosseum, Toledo, Espana, known for it's Jewish roots. Etruscan tombs whose graphic imagery tells the tale of the culture which explains what the scriptures warned about happening. I walked the paths along the hills of Greece, not realizing Paul's footsteps were buried beneath mine (although that one I know I felt it, I was still a JW 'kid' then, but still I didn't plan, I was at the 'mercy' of a companion and coincidence).
Anyway, all this is to say I have so many stories. I don't just believe what I have read, I have lived in it. And it's not by accident, I didn't plan it and just how many coincidences can one take before they finally give in and simply believe?
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Who is the Israel of God? Used one in scripture, claimed by Christians everywhere!
by nibbled inthe phrase israel of god appears only once in the scriptures, yet it is frequently used in christianity.
just who is the israel of god?.
as you consider these points, and before responding, will you please test your thinking to ensure first that you are speaking from a scripture only standpoint?
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nibbled
cofty - Your "bogged down" is my pleasure! I love this! I love reading, and I asked for a book that wouldn't bore me. I didn't even ask God, in prayer or anything like that, I didn't even pray back then (anymore) if I recall correctly. I just wondered out loud to myself when sitting in my new half-unpacked apartment with things strewn everywhere, "I wish I had a good book to read." No kidding my eyes fell on the bible, the only version I owned at the time (NWT) and I wasn't going to just pretend it didn't happen.
Funny is that the answer was both literal and figurative. I got the message, get one you want to read.
So, I agree with all your post except one thing—not sure that I can agree with "no less Jew". They weren't Jew at all. Just like Abraham's other children never had (great grand) kids which became Jews. Only Isaac through Jacob through Judah (and the tribe(s) in his kingdom).
If you mean "no less privileged", spot on, and precisely!
Pleased to meet you—what's your story?
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Who is the Israel of God? Used one in scripture, claimed by Christians everywhere!
by nibbled inthe phrase israel of god appears only once in the scriptures, yet it is frequently used in christianity.
just who is the israel of god?.
as you consider these points, and before responding, will you please test your thinking to ensure first that you are speaking from a scripture only standpoint?
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nibbled
Tammy, I'm sort of stunned.
You may be the first person who believes as I do.
I'm stunned.
I'm wondering, did I miss something. Some parentheses of thought?
I don't think so, your mention of Israel is distinct and contrasted against the great multitude, thus you must accept them as flesh descendants of the tribe.
Not all are kings and priests, yup. They turned down the offer, from Christ and then from Peter. 144,000 will, and some may come in through the great crowd, but that is the remnant, no matter how we look at it.
Bride is of Israel, the body of the Groom is made up of all nations, as you would expect that his household would be, as he is King of the world!
The marriage brings all things into unity into one family, one household ruling in heaven.
And… drum roll please, so you also believe that back on earth those who were promised the land, and the earth, will receive just that, no more than they were promised, but much less than they could have obtained, if only they'd had faith…!?
Wow. I've thought I was alone. I really truly started to believe I might have been the only person who believed the scriptures as written! I've been mocked for it, and driven to tears, by my dad (though he's a witness).
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San Francisco or Bay Area Members?
by nibbled ini did a search and came up with some posts related to san francisco, but i couldn't figure out how to find more recent onesthey were from nearly a dozen years ago!
i was wondering if anyone lives around sf, as well as if anyone is around my age?
i'm early 30's.
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nibbled
AGuest, I'm glad that we have the forum of writing because I can't imagine doing this in person. I'd get so excited and we'd probably both spontaneously combust (into 12 personalities?) hehe
Okay, so I feel like I'm getting "your Lord" whose words jump straight out of your mouth. I'm trying to get to your mind to your heart and ask you to engage with me. I don't need to connect to my Father or his Son though any other person, thus, I'm interested in you. Your heart, the soil on which the seeds are planted. I want to get to know you, which is love, but all I'm getting from you is what your Lord told you.
I often fear that people will take my inquiries and feel offense, I am so happy that that seems not to be happening with us. Because I am very interested and am searching for the words to elicit the response. Thank you for allowing me.
I am asking you—you reason with me that your Lord told you that the spelling of all this things begin with "J". Then you went on to speak about "when those scribes, who determined that God's name was too sacred to utter, let alone write," and how it is that they altered names—So, I'm asking you, or if you so desire, even your Lord through you—why is it that cares about what the scribes did to his word, if he would choose to use something that wasn't even used when the scribes did their work?
In other words, why would he use the letter "J" to represent his name (which predates scribes) and then explain to you about how scribes screwed things up?
So, starting with the name of the MOST Holy One of Israel... JAHVEH... which is taken from the spelling "JHVH" (and not "YHWH")
AGuest, I cannot wrap my head around how it is that he would wait until the 13th century C.E. to have his name be able to rendered.
The "J" came to be in the 13th century.
That doesn't make any sense.
So, please ask him or explain to me why use a letter which didn't exist?
Or, please, before the letter "J" existed, what letter did he tell you was there, when the name was transliterated? His Son was fluent in Aramaic Greek and Hebrew, what would he have written?
Please, ask him, to be clear, how was his name transliterated from the original Hebrew to the original Latin alphabet, the old Latin alphabet, and the classical Latin alphabet?
Forgive me for pressing so hard, but before I can accept your 17th century truth, I'm asking how it is that you or your Lord explains what his name was for the previous 2,400 years. (Latin alphabet dates from 7th century BC, as I understand.)
So, right now, I'm not interested in more and more of what he says, because he sounds like a voice you're hearing which is explaining to you what the scribes did 2500 years ago, but then tells you how to spell his name using letters only hundreds of years old.
Just ask him how his Son spelled his name while he was on earth?
I'm sorry, but since I can pronounce the name, and know all the letters used to represent it from Hebrew to Latin and Greek, I'm not really concerned with 17th century English.
Please, with all due respect.
Part of me right now is simply evaluating if I should listen to what comes from your mouth, as you claim to speak as a prophet and yet what you say is not valid in antiquity.
Further our Father wishes us to know him, and in the truest sense that is to seek truth from it's first utterances. Thus, while my Father nor his Son speak to me audibly, from generation upon generation through the hands of many fallible humans scribes and heresies, down to modern history and burning at the stake and translating the word so it have so many subtle variances, what remains true is that we were told to dig as if searching for hid treasure.
The 17th century English, bastardization of Babel, isn't sufficient for my desire to know ??????.
Just cause his name starts with a "J" and ends with an "n"
Moving forward, I now realize I have no idea what you call your Lord, the man commonly referred to as "Jesus"...?
So you call him the Christ, I see.
That's a Greek title, Christos.
You're okay with that?
Why are you not okay with his Greek name then?
IEOUS became JESUS.
You are okay with I becoming Y becoming J in the dilution of linguistics since Babel, but you're not okay with the same progression when applied to his Son's name?
Why his the Son's name more precious than the Father's?
I'm sorry, dear one, but that's really all I CAN give you
I respect that you hear voices, and I am grateful to you that you respect me testing your spirit to see if it comes from our Father.
I am however, not asking for what your spirit says, while my spirit doesn't speak to me in audible voices, I have access to him directly—therefore, I do not need you to tell me "the truth". I can go directly to the Father through his Son via the holy spirit to be taught, just as you can. Therefore I am here only and simply to know you, my sister.
Thus, you can, if you are willing or if your spirit is willing, give me more. I am not asking for your spirit to speak, I'm asking for your heart, or your mind. Our Father examines our hearts, and knows our minds, therefore there must be something in there—I would like to know what is in yours.
Just like the soil which the seed falls upon may be many different conditions, and it isn't just one upon which fruit may be cultivated, what we learn from the holy spirit from whom we are taught (unless you encounter an unholy spirit) settles into our hearts and minds.
That is what I am desperately, now, attempting to access. I want to know you. Please let me in?
Okay, so you quote Jeremiah 31. If you believe the word of God, then you cannot take those verses out of their context. There is a reference in the chapter where he gave us witnesses. You're a lawyer, could you please review the contract of Jeremiah 31, and review the clauses and it's intent with it's original dates. Then, please, can you tell me that you qualify as one of the parties as expressly and explicitly stipulated?
I only refer to the Bible for those who still need to see what I share "in writing"... because they are still walking by SIGHT... rather than by FAITH.
Before I'm allowed to take in knowledge from a third party from the voice of a spirit I do not know, I am required to test that spirit. Testing that spirit requires that what the spirit says stands up to the written and fleshly Word of God.