Posts by David

11

The Real Ark of the Covenant May Have Housed Pagan Gods - Haaretz

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

according to the bible, the biblical ark of the covenant contained the ten commandments tablets, but some israeli archaeologists have a different view.. haaretz media site publishes the story:.

the real ark of the covenant may have housed pagan gods.

the holy ark was likely kept in jerusalem for much less time than the bible tells us.

David_Jay

Phizzy,

You would think so, if we Jews were like Fundamentalist Christians or the Watchtower, but no.

This article in Haaretz is talking about data supporting the long-standing Jewish historical account supported by critical and progressive Judaism (and some in Orthodox Judaism) that has always been available in our authoritative publications.

For instance, "The Jewish Study Bible" speaks of this in its footnotes to the Torah books, and you can look this up online on many a religious Jewish source, including Orthodox, and online from JewishEncyclopedia.com to Aish.com to MyJewishLearning.com and Chabad.org. It was even highlighted in detail a few years ago on a famous PBS television series, "The Story of the Jews with Simon Schema" which still has a detailed page about it and can be ordered from Pbs.org.

The Jews understand that God gave the land to Abraham and his descendants, and that Moses gave the Law to unify Israel as a nation to worship this one God, but the Israelites would not. Even when King David made worship of the one God the State religion, the Israelites still refused.

Carried away to Babylon, the Jews believed they lost their land and shrine because of this constant refusal to worship God. There they began to develop what we today know as the Bible. But it is not viewed as a literal historic record.

Also, not all Jews today agree with the current government's treatment of the Palestinian population. Many Jews, like myself, believe they have a claim to the land as well and all should live in harmony there. Except for some fundamentalist Orthodox, most Jews believe the claims of the Bible to the land of Israel somewhat symbolic to stand for each human having a claim to a place on earth to call home.

11

A Reminder of the time when Jerusalem was a Christian City

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

construction workers in jerusalem have uncovered an inscription that recalls the era when jerusalem could be described as a christian city.

this is the story of how jerusalem changed into a christian city for a brief period in its history.

how did it happen?

David_Jay

This is why I hate forums. People argue back and forth NOT because they have genuine data, but because it is human nature to not want to be proven wrong. Emotion plays a big part too.

Bungi Bill, I do not now or will ever question your knowledge of ability to know anything. I am sure you are quite intelligent and bright. If you wish to stand by your last post as 100% correct, then I will let you have it.

I only ask that in all fairness you go back and look back at what you offered: Instead of data on what actually occurred involving the Revisionist Zionists leading up to the Palestinian Civil War, you have an EXAMPLE of what happened in other conflicts to compare.

British forces actually had a chance to sit down and work with some of the various Revisionist Zionists factions, something that did not occur in any of the examples you mentioned. It wasn't the limited numbers that was running the British army ragged in this case, it was support from the world community for giving Palestine to the genuine Zionist community that was making things difficult.

And yes, I am aware that the decision had been made far in advance for Britain to the Civil War to create a state homeland for the Jews. Good grief, they are one of the nations that suggested it to the UN!

I know my own people's history. I happen to be Israeli-American after all. I know about this war, the Six Day War, yadda yadda yadda. Uh, you know it's required for me to know this stuff just to belong to my synagogue.

But that doesn't matter, does it? There will be another counter argument or a statement on how I take thing too seriously or something...anything to take the spotlight off the fact of the enigma of it all.

Like everything else Jewish, like even the Bible, the Gentiles always come around and say they know more than we do about it and that we don't know our own Scriptures or our own history, and some might even say we imagined our time in the concentration camps. Sheesh, even the Jehovah's Witnesses re-write the date when Solomon's Temple fell! We Jews got the date wrong. Thanks Christians and world of Gentiles!

So, there's no use. I'll never be right. My years of learning Hebrew, of studying my own people's history, of walking the Holy Land, of being a part of Jewish-Christian dialogue, none of it matters. People don't want facts. You win! Your post is right, mine is wrong. I know nothing about my own history. And there wasn't even someone known as Simon bar Kokhba. So forget about that and 135 CE too.

It's like that Fundamentalist lady who was trying to convert me to Christianity said to me. She showed me a text from the Old Testament that she said "plainly showed that the Messiah was Jesus," but I said no, and she replied with a smile: "Aw, but what do Jews really know about the Old Testament?"

I give up.

11

A Reminder of the time when Jerusalem was a Christian City

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

construction workers in jerusalem have uncovered an inscription that recalls the era when jerusalem could be described as a christian city.

this is the story of how jerusalem changed into a christian city for a brief period in its history.

how did it happen?

David_Jay

I didn't say there wasn't terrorism on the part of many Zionists. Read back, I mentioned two of the Revisionist Zionist groups by name.

But it was denounced by the Jews and the official Zionism movement which fought against it with British forces to do away with these groups. Both the British army and the Jewish Agency (which became the State of Israel) was betrayed by Haganah, a group that started out as a terrorist faction, then sides with British forces and the official Zionism movement, but then rebelled and and stood with the Revisionist forces in the end.

Britain was eager to come to a peaceful agreement with the Jewish Agency and the Zionists until the Civil War broke out between the Arabs and Revisionist Zionists. The British forces left and the Jewish Agency and Zion was forced to side with the Revisionists. Haganah, however, made some peace by then with Zion and with its British training helped turn the war in the direction it ended. But not all Jews were involved in the terrorism. That's like saying your lack of knowledge of Bar Kokhba was accurate too.

11

A Reminder of the time when Jerusalem was a Christian City

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

construction workers in jerusalem have uncovered an inscription that recalls the era when jerusalem could be described as a christian city.

this is the story of how jerusalem changed into a christian city for a brief period in its history.

how did it happen?

David_Jay

The Watchtower is only concerned with the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE. Too often in their literature the Witnesses have misapplied the description of the ending of the Bar Kokhba revolt by the Romans to the fall of Herod's Temple, as if Judah was emptied then and the Diaspora began in 70.

The Diaspora began in 135 CE with the end of the Bar Kokhba rising, and the horrific death toll and descriptions of slaughter the Watchtower often used for 70 CE to typify the destruction of either Babylon the Great or Armageddon belongs to what happened in 135. I know this because according to Jewish tradition (with some historical support) the last Christian bishop of Jewish descent, Judah Kyriakos, is part of my ancestral family tree. There are no reports of him being slaughtered by the Romans nor of him entering Sepharad (modern-day Spain/Portugal) with the rest of the House of David. Tradition has him living until 148, but exactly where he lived his last days is unknown.

The terrorist acts by the Revisionist Zionists such as the Irgun and the Haganah didn't exactly drive out the British. It was the Civil War that did it.

Keeping Israel as a territory under British control was becoming a headache as the outcry of a need for a homeland for the Jews after the world learned of the Holocaust grew louder. The problem only escalated as sympathy from the U.N. and the lines of support for orthodox Zionism and Revisionist Zionist and its acts of political violence began to blur on the world scene.

In an effort to bring peace, the British army began a proposal of "sleeping with the enemy." The Haganah (among others) actually joined the ranks of the British forces for a while when the Jewish Agency/Zionist organizations were fighting to stop terrorist attacks against British authorities.

WIth the breakout of the Palestinian Civil War, Britain pulled out (they were not going to get in the middle of a bloodbath between Arabs and Jews for a slice of desert). They had, of course trained the Haganah, and it was their particular skills and forces that won the war for the Israeli army.

With the sympathy for the Jews having grown even wider while the Civil War played out (it was at the same time that the full details of Hitler's "final solution" and the type of suffering the Jews had endured in the concentration camps and the number who died were circulating around the globe by radio and newspapers and magazines and newsreels), the birth of the modern State of Israel met with little resistance on the 14 of May 1948.

Currently, however the State of Israel is under a government similar to that of what we find in America now, only a bit more far to the right and if the president had a heavy Fundamentalist slant to all he did, favoring only the strictest Fundamentalist Christian churches. You are still free to be who you are and worship as you wish, but right now if you aren't a member of the right Jewish denomination, you can't get in if you are a Jew who wants to claim your right to a home in Israel (Orthodox only). And even though it was established as a secular state ensuring the freedom of the Jewish religion, currently it acts as a Jewish religious state out to crush secularism.

And I don't have to tell you about the corruption charges against the leadership that has been raining down like...well, like the Ten Plagues on the current Israeli administration.

Just thought I would add this too.

65

Today's Text - Justifying The Increase Of Annointed Ones!

by Divergent in

jw
friends

thursday, august 31. jehovah knows those who belong to him.—2 tim.

2:19.. in recent years, we have seen an increase in the number of those partaking at the memorial of christ’s death.

that trend contrasts with the decrease in the number of partakers that we saw for many decades.

David_Jay

"Come join us, the one true religion of God, where an ever-increasing number of us, now numbering many thousands upon thousands (with no signs of stopping) are mistaken about what they believe or because what we have taught them about the afterlife have become mentally ill. One of these may be at your front door right now giving you this message. Or better yet, come visit our Kingdom Hall for a meeting where you or one of your children can sit right next to any of these ever-increasing number of misinformed, mentally ill Jehovah's Witnesses!"

Wow, a religion with leadership not inspired of God and that creates a growing number of people who get a wrong idea of what to believe or get a mental illness! Where do I sign up and send money?

8

Strange Week for The Left

by freemindfade in

it's been a strange week, maybe the left sent out a memo this week that there losing their minds... three things i've noticed.... 1. mainstream media and politicians start bashing antifa a year into their bs, kind of odd, better late than never.

2. diane feinstein melts the brains of libs at a thing in sf when she expresses hope in trump, very odd, they probably ran her out of town with pitch forks and torches.. 3. trevor noah tells everyone to chill on ridiculing melania on what she wore to houston, beyond strange!

and also hypocritical, it's like telling everyone to think a certain way, to overreact to every little thing, then saying how dare you over react to something so insignificant.

David_Jay

As a Jew, all I can say is that shouting and protesting often does little but induce fighting, and yet our calls for peace are being unheeded by people who seem to want to kick up dirt and cause trouble and push agendas.

Even many Jews are questioning the actions of the ADL which is supposed to be DEFENDING the Jews against anti-Semitism but lately has been INCITING people, especially the non-Jewish to rally in opposition to counter or attempt to prevent what may be gatherings that fall under the protection of American free speech and assembly laws. I myself had to distance myself from the ADL because it has become too radical over the past year. I am not the only Jew who has done this recently.

While I totally disagree wholeheartedly with the Neo-Nazi message and worldview, and as a Jew I have sadly had to endure (especially this year in Florida) several incidents of anti-Semitism targeted either at my local Jewish community or myself personally, I don't encourage taking the rights of American citizens away, no matter how distasteful their message or beliefs may be.

I was taught to let hate assemble and peacefully walk past it, to even look for opportunities to treat it kindly and prove it wrong by your kindness, to perhaps demonstrate that you are not violent or the animal or beast that it claimed you were, if possible.

Now if a law was being broken, yes, then action had to be taken, but not until then. Until then if I wanted my neighbor to let me live in peace and treat me with respect, I will do the same, especially when I do not subscribe to their tenets. Mutual respect fosters mutual respect. You earn it. It is not a right.

Call me old-fashioned, but why so many "talking heads" on television telling me what to think about today's news? I don't need to be told what to think about it. I don't necessarily care for Trump, but you don't have to bring a panel of "experts" in to tell me what I should be thinking about what he says or does. (Last I saw on my MRI, I have brain. My neurologist assured me it can do thinking good.)

Now, at one time I was what they called "progressive," yes, even a "liberal." But you wouldn't catch me with a stick in my hand at a rally. We did things by ad hoc committee and grass movements (sometimes the emphasis was a little too much on the "grass" perhaps and I'm not sure we got much done if anything...but it was always peaceful, always), and we didn't get our agenda on TV either (well, people have always said we Jews got our agenda in entertainment since the beginning, and in a way that's true since we Jews invented both the major film studios and, yep, the U.S. porn industry--Uh-huh, Jews invented lust...that's what you get for blaming us for killing Jesus, naked pictures to fuel your masturbation addiction...to the rest of you who aren't suffering from Christian guilt, yeah, you're welcome). The agenda on TV back then was still a Norman Rockwell painting designed mostly by Republicans well into the 1980s and a bit into the early '90s.

I'm not a conservative, no sir, but I think I just got knocked over into the "moderate" lane. "Uh, wait a minute here," I told somebody about this recently, "I'm a Jew. Shouldn't I have a say in this?"

Rudely the hand of a millennial who was waving his other as a fist at a Neo-Nazi, pushed me away at my face and said to me: "Beat it, old man, this is not your fight!"

What just happened? Do you know who I am? My people invented porn!

11

Your View Of Death How Much Does It Effect The Way You Look At The World Around You?

by Brokeback Watchtower in

lets face it the watchtower's indoctrinations effect the way we look at the world we see governments as tool of the devil.

we look at our relatives different, we will not speak to our own children if disfellowshipped.. a better world is what christians promise believers, or hell for those condemned by the deity.

kiss the ass of the deity and go to a better world, and don't forget to put something in the collection plate on sunday.. to face death with out the crutch of a future better world for beleivers, is better, as you can cherish the life you are living and be more in the present while facing what ever life throws at you.

David_Jay

While Jewish theology contains a history of sages and ancients contemplating on "Olam Ha Ba," or the World to Come, there is little to no focus on it. Many Jews do not even subscribe to the notion at all and accept that this life is all that there is.

The concepts of "belief" and "faith" were introduced into Judaism during the Middle Ages by Maimonides who felt it was necessary to fortify Jewish theology with such facts as a bulwark to counter Protestant proselytizing. WIth the birth of Zionism in modern times, Judiasm began to slowly retreat to pre-Maimonides concepts in these areas. Except when speaking to Christians and other Westerners, these days Jews rarely refer to their own convictions as beliefs or as holding them with faith since Judaism is a religion of practice, not of mental assent to theological concepts of creeds as one must do in Christianity.

In view of that, even where a Jew fully accepts the concept of Olam Ha Ba, it is not a focus. One does not "believe" or have "faith" in such things in Judaism, and little to nothing is known about the future in Judaism so we spend no time concentrating our efforts preparing our lives to live there.

Instead the principal of "Tikklun Olam," the healing of the world, plays foremost in the daily life of Jews. The keeping of Torah by performing mitzvah (the Hebrew word means both "commandment"and "blessing") is a way of bringing practical ways of benefit to the world. Instead of concentrating on living to get into Heaven or the coming world, Jews concentrate on making the most of life now and tending the world around them (as if they were like Adam, still assigned to tend the Garden of Eden). Being here, alive now is the miracle to be thankful for, not hoping and working to get into Heaven someday and escape the reality of death which must come to us all, you and me.

Tomorrow is not promised. We Jews do not know if our sages and prophets are right. Even if they are, we cannot earn our place in Olam Ha Ba. As the Jewish saying goes, if you see a problem in the world that means you have been gifted to help solve that problem. But if all you do is complain about the problem that you see, you not only deny your gift to solve it but make the matter worse by becoming part of the problem yourself.

33

Hollywood messed up another one

by hothabanero in

i am a big superhero fan and was looking forward to "the defenders".

the first two episodes are great but then ... liberalism happens.

one of the heroes (luke cage, big black guy) goes on this crazy rant, like a liberals wet dream of the bravehearth speech.

David_Jay

Despite the fact that I think some of you just don’t know the source material (again it’s just a comic book), I do think IMHO it would be minimizing the feelings of people who feel their culture and way of life is being threatened if I don't acknowledge that some really do feel angry about what they feel they are witnessing in the media.

As a Jew, I can relate to that. And that is a separate issue. I would never want you to feel you don’t deserve to be heard or go through life feeling threatened in any fashioned. No human deserves that.

True, you are merely talking about a television program. I have had my house of worship receive five bomb threats this year, my Jewish community center receive 4, twelve of my family grave sites replaced or repaired six times this year because of anti-Semitic symbols painted on them or because they were smashed or toppled, had a swastika painted on my front door, been told by a (former) friend of mine the other day I am not welcome in their house because of being a Jew, and a cabbage tossed at my head at a farmers market a couple of weeks ago because I wear a yarmulke (they both ran off but were eventually arrested). This was just this year, 2017. So, I can relate to what you might be feeling.

And I am not trying to be condescending either. People’s agendas begin on paper, in the arts, on books, on stages, in paintings. Later came radio, then film, now television. Yes, the left does have an agenda that they push on television shows. Though the LGBT community is very small, it seems every show now has a gay or transgender person on it. And they are all so accepting of everyone. Alas, they don’t show you the prejudiced LGBT people. For instance, the person who told me I was no longer welcomed in their home was a gay man--an atheist gay man. Crazy, right? How more “left” can you get than that?

While some might say: “Hey, white people in America don’t have a reason to feel threatened. They have all the privileges.” Well, yeah. But then again, I’m white. And I had all these things happen to me that I wrote above here. True, I’m a Sephardic Jew, and if you look close enough you can tell I’m a bit darker than most white people, but I live in Florida. Most “white people” are darker than I am because just everyone here has a tan. (Not kidding. I've seen Christians wear shorts and flip-flops to Mass!)

People can feel threatened by agendas that are subtle or some we might just be imagining. But in the end, we all deserve to be heard. And we all owe it to one another to listen to each other. We’ll never understand our fellow man if we keep shouting at one another. It hasn’t worked in the past, it doesn’t work now, it will not work in the future.

So, don’t think I am minimizing anyone’s feelings here. If you feel that your way of life is being threatened by what you are hearing in the media, it might be true. You feel what you feel and those feelings are very real. But try some dialogue instead of complaining. Dialogue is planned open discussion on all sides involved over time that seeks to build bridges of understanding and prevent fighting.

Lastly, from what I remember in the comic books, the partnership between Luke Cage and Iron Fist was about breaking through stereotypes. Both Luke Cage and the Iron Fist had incorrect stereotypical views of one another until they became partners (Iron Fist even started dating Misty Knight, an African-American police woman who receives a bionic arm from Tony Stark--I don’t know if that is in your TV show you say is Marxist or if I just offered up a spoiler). So expect more of these speeches you don’t like, because they are supposed to keep making them until they realize they are blinded by stereotypical views they must overcome. This is a holdover from the reason their characters were created in the first place.

14

I'm a bit worried about god!

by punkofnice in

it's true.

i'm a bit worried about god.. he seems to be doing some quite silly and frankly, insane things to prove he exists.. some bloke found words from the quran in a tomato.. jesus keeps appearing in toast and cats bums.. i'm worried about god.

i think he's gone a bit didlow..

David_Jay

First time on bath salts, dearie? That was my experience too.

18

The true essence of the Bible—there is some problem with it?!

by venus in

in the famous aesop fable, we read about a fox who unsuccessfully tried to get some grapes, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “i am sure they are sour.”.

someone made a second part to this story.

fox did some rehearsal in the night and came on to the scene next day, and jumped with difference and got the grapes from the vine tree, and he began to eat to his full capacity.

David_Jay

A footnote: while to some this might paint a picture of "a puzzle wherein all the pieces come together and fit quite nicely," as one Christian friend put it, it also illustrates why Jews cannot accept Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah even though a lot of us see the logic in Christian antithetical theological constructs such as the above.

Why not? It requires that Jesus of Nazareth be the incarnation of the God of Abraham or worse, as proposed by Marcion of Sinope (the inventor of the first Christian Bible canon) a different deity altogether.

In Judaism, the God of Abraham is greater than the concept of "deity" and therefore cannot become incarnate. To a certain degree (and some Jews and Jewish sages argue to the fullest degree) God is only called "God" because we Jews are still employing an ancient label. Thus there are no such things as gods. The God of Abraham is far greater than a mere deity. The Origin of the universe would have to be. God is mystery, ineffible. What Jews wrote about God in the Bible was mere chicken scratch by comparison with the Real Thing.

So such a "God" is far beyond becoming the subject of incarnation like the Greeks and Romans believed, nor does God offer others to become God by sacrificing himself as a human and then presenting himself as an invisible presence in bread and wine that you have to believe is there (against all evidence to the contrary) in order to receive the full benefits of the redemption offered in the elements of Holy Communion.

Also, the Messiah would not merely be designated to rule. The Messiah would rule, and from earthly Jerusalem. Messiah does not mean "anointed one" as in "president elect" but "ruler in office." It refers to a king, a priest, even a prophet who is OFFICIALLY ACTING as such, not merely anointed to the office to do the work in some distant future and get killed before that future occurs. If you get anointed but murdered before you sit on your throne, you are never the king. That's Jewish law. Jesus said he came to fulfill the law but obviously forgot about that one.

But again, the traditional Christian view makes far more sense than the Watchtower view. It holds merit in that it carries the Jewish tradition along with it.

David_Jay

Posts by David_Jay