Posts by David

45

So, is God a rapist!?

by stuckinarut2 in

ok, i apologise in advance if this seems irreverent to those who believe in god.. but, the bible says that god (jehovah) impregnated mary.

without her consent.

so that would seem to be rape...right?.

David had been acting very anxious for several weeks, especially after hurricane Irma struck us here in Florida. As part of an adult Asperburgers/Autism support group, his therapy leaders and I went searching for the cause. We found it: this forum.

Just because some here didn't read the comments we found aimed at David, doesn't mean they weren't there. We read them all, the ones where he was taunted repeatedly with the phrase "getting your panties all twisted in a wad" or where he was repeatedly called "stupid...insane...brainless" and countless times where various posters attacked his culture, his race's traditions etc. If you would like I can even list the names of all the posters and the personal insults and curse words that various people called David as he posted. We copied everything down.

On top of that, if I have to keep on reminding you, David is atypical. He doesn't understand each time something is meant to be a simple lampoon or get jokes as easily as the rest of you. To be honest, you folks don't make it clear at all, and in some cases we had a hard time seeing a difference on this site... And we don't have autism!

The front page of this site claims it offers support and tolerance. Instead, what I am reading here from JP1692 is that what you really offer is only distrust, challenges, and fiery heat to everyone who passes through. If they don't measure up to these standards, you spit them out.

Congrats. You just replaced one high control group with another that practices shunning and excommunication just like the group you left. And just like the group you left, you blame the victims for not fitting in. Good job guys, you've invented a new online cult.

I'm moving on now. Enjoy lampooning, putting people under "the heat" and then blaming them if they cannot stay in your "kitchen," but lying to them on your front page on how this is a welcoming page of support and tolerance. You really learned how to be just like the Watchtower cult, didn't you?

45

So, is God a rapist!?

by stuckinarut2 in

ok, i apologise in advance if this seems irreverent to those who believe in god.. but, the bible says that god (jehovah) impregnated mary.

without her consent.

so that would seem to be rape...right?.

David_Jay

David is on the high functioning end of the autism scale, as I mentioned prior a few days before. I am his brother-in-law.

There was a letter in David's box here, and he wanted me to pass a message to someone named Cofty and Simon and say thank you and close the account. As I mentioned before I read quite a few of the threads before asking David to leave, and in the process I thought I would mention the above information since I saw the question in passing and had the information.

As for me sounding like David. I know we don't, definitely not in real life. But should we sound similar in writing to you maybe it is because we went to the same university, roomed together, and he married my sister. After she passed I have been watching him.

But while we may have similarities due to education, I am quite different than him, I promise you. I know how to call out weak-minded, chicken-shits who like to think people are fucking with them by pretending to be two or three people. You're just saying that because I present a good argument. It's an easy out for you, and I don't give a shit what you've written, Anonymous or whoever you are (with a screen name like that, you shouldn't be talking).

Now. if no one wants to help, and since I can't find a way to get his account removed, forget it. Apparently Jehovah's Witnesses are just as mean, untrusting, judgmental, and abusive to my brother-in-law outside their cult as they were when they were in it.

To those who made it hard on David: Shame on you. If anyone should be acting unlike those fucking Watchtower assholes it's you guys, but apparently you only left their doctrines behind. Their hatred for other religions, their enjoyment of judging others, their intolerance and bigotry, none of that washed off. Instead, from what I can see that you did to David, to an autistic man and with no shame, you revel in and improve their techniques of meanness like a sport.

And If you, Anonymous, still think I'm David, I'm gonna say something just to you that David would never say: Screw you, you cunt, and go to hell!

Forgive me, to you others that David liked, but I was merely looking for help and to help and now I even got a little taste of what he went through. Excuse my language too. But this is one of the most horrible places disguised as a support group I've ever seen!

45

So, is God a rapist!?

by stuckinarut2 in

ok, i apologise in advance if this seems irreverent to those who believe in god.. but, the bible says that god (jehovah) impregnated mary.

without her consent.

so that would seem to be rape...right?.

David_Jay

I am Mr. Dunn, David's friend. I'm searching for a way to get his profile removed.

I'm an atheist. I'm 50 years old, holding several degrees from three universities, never grew up in a religion, especially not one such as the Jehovah's Witnesses.

But even I as an educated atheist man know that this entire thread is actually highly problematic in its arguments.

I respect others right to disagree with the thread, but can they offer a better explanation of the "facts" about Mary's conception?

Yes. There is. Even though I hold no belief in Christianity or Jesus or the New Testament myths, this story from the Gospel of Luke (the only place it occurs) is called "The Annunciation." It is all about Mary saying "yes" to God's invitation to become the mother of Jesus.

In fact, it is so much the opposite of a rape, that the "yes" Mary gives to God in this short story is theologically celebrated as a Holy Day of Obligation in the Roman Catholic Church (a day where all Catholics MUST attend Mass regardless of what day of the year this day falls on).

On this day Mary's "yes" is contrasted to Eve's "no" in following God's invitation to obedience. One woman is asked to not eat of a certain tree that leads to death and she says "no." Another woman is asked to become the mother of a child who will bring life to all humankind and this other woman says "yes." (See the following information on the theological contrast between the two women, though this article is about the Immaculate Conception.)

In my view as an atheist, it's a myth. But I'm also an EDUCATED ATHEIST. That means I know the myth, just like I know the Greek and Roman myths. To get the myths wrong would make me sound like an ignorant asshole. I'm not an ignorant asshole. I know my mythology.

Now I'm not saying any of you are ignorant assholes. This idea for this thread is likely due to being exposed to nothing but the limited world of your Jehovah's Witnesses cult. You folks wouldn't be writing this thread if you had heard of The Annunciation. It's probably printed as a day on your secular calendars too but you've never noticed it or knew what it was. That's what living in a deep, dark hole in the ground, cut off from the real world does to you. You don't even learn the mythology of the world correctly.

The Annunciation is not a story of a rape. It's a story of a woman who said "yes" to a deity when asked if she would act as that deity's handmaiden. She bravely and honorably gave her consent in contrast to Eve, and that's the point of the myth.

Now if someone can tell me how to disconnect David's account. I won't bother you again.

39

Why pigs???

by stuckinarut2 in

why did jesus supposedly cast the demons into a herd of pigs?.

(matt 8 / luke 8).

and, how were there so many demons inside one man, that when "released" by jesus, it took a whole pack of pigs to contain them??.

David_Jay

My name is Charles Dunn. I am David’s friend.

He left very upset to his synagogue tonight. For the past two days he has been posting feverishly on this site after an absence on it for some time. I was hoping he would never go back as it makes him upset. David has some challenges, which he has told me he has shared with this site for the first time tonight.

I have finally got him to agree to stop coming on this site. Whatever it is you folks do to him, it’s not good.

David is a highly intelligent, successful individual and professional. He has spent his life in community projects on a national and international level. At 50 he has much to show for it. He is also on the autism spectrum, highly functioning, what people used to call having Asperger's syndrome.

People on the spectrum can become obsessive. People like him are highly logical and rational. They can see things others can’t, especially when people are lying to themselves. So they can be a little too blunt with us and say things to us we don’t want to hear. That is David. It frustrates him that others don’t like to hear the truth. He doesn’t this.

I apologize if his bluntness has upset anyone. That is his main flaw. He doesn’t realize when he shouldn’t point out another’s problem. Normally people gloss over another’s faults and just move on. David expects people to appreciate being corrected. He enjoys being told where he made a mistake and fixing himself, but you better be right when you do this otherwise he will correct you about your correction.

But I’ve been reading what he’s been writing for the past two days too. And I’ve been reading through this site. I’m sorry for all the hurt you folks have gone through as Jehovah’s Witnesses. I recall David’s own experiences. The hurt shows.

However, there is a lot of unnecessary hate that comes through. A lot. And I hope some of you do something for it because it shows that you need healing.

The reason I got David to promise to never return is because the way his comments about religion gets him treated by some of you here. It get him more than mocked. It him and his words treated with hateful disrespect.

I am an atheist. I have no need for religion. But that type of speech is very, very wrong. I know hurt from your experience as a Jehovah’s Witness is at the basis for most of it, but you direct it at a person and his culture. His religion of Judaism is tied to a people, so every word you say about his religion is about his people and culture. I would never do that. Reading some of your words here is definitely a sign that there is a lack of connection with propriety and social responsibility.

My main concern in David. He doesn’t understand that some of you are being hateful towards him because he’s the easiest and closest thing to hate now that you are out of your cult. But I do. So I am taking him away. And he’s not coming back.

I wish you the best. I hope some of you heal and realize there’s more to being an atheist than hating and mocking religion and religious people.

I will post this in two of the threads he had open tonight to make sure all is settled.

39

Why pigs???

by stuckinarut2 in

why did jesus supposedly cast the demons into a herd of pigs?.

(matt 8 / luke 8).

and, how were there so many demons inside one man, that when "released" by jesus, it took a whole pack of pigs to contain them??.

David_Jay

I didn't say people couldn't be humorous, Sparky1.

39

Why pigs???

by stuckinarut2 in

why did jesus supposedly cast the demons into a herd of pigs?.

(matt 8 / luke 8).

and, how were there so many demons inside one man, that when "released" by jesus, it took a whole pack of pigs to contain them??.

David_Jay

EverApostate,

My wife, who has passed, was an atheist. Her brother, who is still living, is atheist. I'm a practing Jew. I love her brother very much, and he and I are very close. We are the best of friends.

There is a very big difference between him and his atheist friends, most of whom are scholars and academics, and the atheists on this board. My atheist friends are not anti-religious. Most atheists here are very anti-religious.

And yet, this is not an anti-religious board. It is an ex-Jehovah's Witnesses board. Over the years, it has become very intolerant of religious thought and people.

I'm very supportive of atheists, even those with an anti-religious slant. Being a Jew I am often subject to religious persecution by the same religions that persecute atheists. We generally have the same enemies in common. Even if we didn't, I hate the fact that anyone would treat another human as a second-class citizen just because they don't believe in God. My experience with atheists has for the most part been positive, and they have been some of the closest family members of mine.

This forum has of late become an anti-religion forum. But it is advertised still as an ex-JW forum. And though I understand that people are hurt by the Watchtower, and know what that is like because I was a JW too, people focus their anger and hate at anything and anyone religious.

In my case, that is often me and my culture. And it hurts, it hurts a lot. It's insulting, and often anti-Semitic. But I come back again and again.

This isn't an anti-religious forum. There are forums on the Internet that are for anti-religious discussions and jokes. You can rant and rave there. But I understand the need of people to do that here, and I just go ahead and let it happen.

But the opening page of this site reads that this is a place that will...

...provide a friendly, tolerant and informative environment where you can ask questions, share information and make new friends.

That isn't really true anymore. People aren't tolerant of things religious. People are intolerant of it. It's just a joke, and often it's a target and something to insult.

You are in the outside world now. Outside the Watchtower, the God of Abraham originates from the culture of the Jews, so does the Old Testament part of the Bible. You make fun of that or say bad things about God, you are saying bad things about a culture and a people, and me. It's called "intolerance." It amounts to "anti-Semitism." This isn't the closed-off world of the Watchtower anymore. You can't say things like some of you have been saying of late without hurting me or a lot of people. You have to learn to stop and think before you type. You need to find healthier ways to deal with your anger and hurt. Some of your speech is boardering on hate speech.

The fact that some of you don't see certain subjects as anything more than a joke says a lot about not realizing how things are really like in the outside world. You want to be outside in the real world. Okay, you are. But now you have rules out here. You can't say certain things. God is not the exclusive property of the Christians. God is also tied to the Jewish culture, a persecuted minority, one that suffered during the Holocaust.

You are outside in the very real world now. I understand the hurt, the pain from the Watchtower days. It's not like I don't feel it too. But there are proper ways to act now. We aren't in the Watchtower anymore.

39

Why pigs???

by stuckinarut2 in

why did jesus supposedly cast the demons into a herd of pigs?.

(matt 8 / luke 8).

and, how were there so many demons inside one man, that when "released" by jesus, it took a whole pack of pigs to contain them??.

David_Jay

EverApostate,

Wasn't offended. I just took it literally.

You said it was a place for joking and suddenly I thought: Oh, oh, David, you did it again!

I almost never share I have autism. It was like I said, practically nobody knows. Now at 50 I've learned how to fit in and for the most part I function like most people in public.

But there are still a few times when things escape me, like cerain low-brow jokes. I am also highly logical.

I also almost never offer my opinions here. Opinions have no logical value since they are based on emotions. People leaving the Watchtower need empirical data, in other words what people call "facts." Jokes and opinions will only cloud the needs of people leaving cults.

We on this board owe it to people reading our posts to separate ourselves, our opinions and feelings from the subject matter, and to post objectively. Sure, a joke here and there is fine, but there is a section for it isn't there?

For the most part we need to answer questions in ways to help Witnesses and ex-JWs think critically so as to leave the Watchtower behind. In order to do this we need to think and answer seriously as often as possible.

Lives are at stake. If you waste your time on here joking, you are wasting a reader's time, a reader who might have limited time on this site because they are still a JW, and might get caught reading this and face disciplinary action because of it. Others are not as free as you to be here on this forum. You can't think only of yourself.

We post a joke, and they have had to scroll past jokes to find real, serious information that they need. That's not fair. There are many people that can't sign up as members and only read out of fear of getting caught, but they seriously need our help, not our jokes.

We have a duty. We are out. We need to help get our brother and sisters out too. That, in my opinion, is not a joking matter.

39

Why pigs???

by stuckinarut2 in

why did jesus supposedly cast the demons into a herd of pigs?.

(matt 8 / luke 8).

and, how were there so many demons inside one man, that when "released" by jesus, it took a whole pack of pigs to contain them??.

David_Jay

EverApostate wrote:

Seems you are taking all religious texts very seriously and trying hard to add substance to it. Take it EZ friend. Religion is all about fun, for most people on this Blog. Just saying. Its your wish to write your mind.

Actually, I try not to write my opinion or personal views on this forum. I am an academic. I'm trying to help ex-JWs find solid answers, not jokes.

I was raised for a short time as a Witness, but if people here are just taking everything I say as a joke, and I don't realize that, then I will leave.

I am 50 years old and am on the autism spectrum, but very high functioning. Most people cannot tell when they meet me. I also have a very high IQ. Combined this might make it hard for me to know when other people are joking. Apparently this has been the case.

So if this is the consensus of everyone here, please let me know by having several people post in the next following statements. I apologize for making this mistake. I have no problem leaving the forum. I didn't realize this was a joke forum.

Autism, even as high functioning as mine, does make me not get jokes some times.

37

Science may answer the question: Is there a God?

by Old Navy in

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9qkdv6yg3s.

David_Jay

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

I am a BIG Douglas Adams fan!

That being said, this doesn't apply to the Jewish concept of God because "faith" is a Christian concept. As a Jew I don't have faith in God's existence, neither do I believe that God exists.

At the same time I very much accept the reality of the God of Abraham. Most Jews will also say similar things, saying no to faith and belief. Perhaps they might even stop short of the claim of "real" as well. And yet you will find that these same Jews pray. There are atheist Jews who are Torah observant and pray too.

What you won't find are agnostics in Judaism. Weird, huh? How does that work?

The concept of the God of Abraham is very different in Judaism. It is an Eastern concept and a form of monotheistic thought that has evolved for 2000 years longer than static Christianity's view of God.

Some ex-JWs who become atheists often carry over their religious ignorance with them and apply their limited views from the Watchtower, a Western and very Gentile, Christian religion, to a Middle-Eastern Religio-culture with a very complex and evolving theology.

What you're trying to say might make you sound uneducated to some. My atheist friends who are not and never have come from religious backgrounds refer to ex-JWs atheists as "narrow atheists." It means their arguments are only limited to Western theology.

There are reasons why Judaism is a monotheistic religion. Since we don't make converts, have no interest in doing so, and I am not here to attempt that, if you want to know more and why, I am sure you can find a local temple or synagogue and educate yourself.

Otherwise, every time you apply Christian theology to something I said about Judaism, I will point out how much it belies any claim you might make to being a critical thinker or know what you are talking about. (But I know you better than that. You quoted Douglas Adams, so you're ok I'm my book.)

Besides, who has to have faith or belief in anything that is real? If I went to my rabbi and said, "Help me, rabbi, I am having doubts that my wife exists. My faith in her existence is fading." I'm sure my rabbi would send me to the funny farm. If you are certain someone is real, why do you have to faith in their existence in the first place?

Sir82, I actually appreciated your comments and gave them a thumbs up. But make sure you know that Mr. Adams was speaking of Christianity. I was speaking of Judaism. Jews actually demand proof of God...but that's another story which, like I said, you need to take to your local temple if you need more info.

39

Why pigs???

by stuckinarut2 in

why did jesus supposedly cast the demons into a herd of pigs?.

(matt 8 / luke 8).

and, how were there so many demons inside one man, that when "released" by jesus, it took a whole pack of pigs to contain them??.

David_Jay

Diogenesister,

That story about Jesus making a paste with his spit will likely sound odd to those who have been exposed to little more than the theology of Jehovah's Witnesses, but that is because Jehovah's Witnesses are so religiously isolated and academically ignorant in critical theology.

In Christianity there is a basic fundamental belief to the majority of almost every Christian. It is called "sacramentality." If all you have ever known is Watchtower religion then this passage likely weirds you out.

It will be too long and drawn out to fully explain what a sacrament is to you because it depends if you understand Christianity's theology on grace. As a Jew myself, I am not here to give you a lesson on becoming a Christian anyway.

In a nutshell, Christians believe that God mercifully considers the needs of humans to see, feel, and touch something while invisible spiritual actions are taking place. So God uses sacraments, everyday physical objects or persons, and endows them with the miraculous to such an extent that these objects or persons become the physical representatives of the invisible reality.

To illustrate: The hem of Jesus' cloak acted as a sacrament for the woman who was suffering from a hemorrhage. (Luke 8:44) Peter's shadow was a healing sacrament at one time. (Acts 5:15) Articles of clothing and handkerchiefs from Paul were also sacraments used to heal people. (Acts 19:11-12) Today most Christians practice two sacraments, that of baptism and Holy Communion or the Lord's Supper. The objects here are water and bread and wine or juice of grapes, respectively.

The paste Jesus made in your example was a sacrament. Even Jesus himself is viewed by Christians as a sacrament. Since God cannot be directly viewed and touched by humans, God came as the Incarnation as God the Son, someone humanity can see, touch, and understand in human terms.

Again this is Christianity's take. It doesn't represent my view as a Jew since Jews don't accept Jesus as Messiah. But it should help you understand what that mud/paste healing meant.

David_Jay

Posts by David_Jay