Posts by wisdomfrombelow

54

What would you do if the Society Declares Bankruptcy

by Quarterback in

jw
friends

special pioneers let go.

bethel workers laid off.

construction halts, what's next?

wisdomfrombelow

I read about a situation that might compare to the Borg going bankrupt. What happens when a church goes bankrupt

It could be done to reduce a huge payment. Each country has laws regarding what is legal in it's jurisdiction. In Singapore some church officers got convicted of "Breach of Trust" for mismanaging money and could happen also. The Kingdom Halls are not assets that they can sell directly so closing branches and selling other real estate is something they can do.

The Society have smart lawyers and probably have structured themselves that they can survive any "attack" and have conditioned the faithful to listen to them no matter what. Rutherford was in prison along with his associates and that didn't deter him. Bankruptcy and other such problems won't deter them either. They will lead and there will be those who are willing to follow because people like the fantasy of living forever and never dying, of growing younger and healthier instead of older and no other religion is offering that.

71

Doing the Right Thing, Making a Choice (shunning)

by Simon in

jw
friends

continuing a topic that is dear to my heart because of my experience as both a shunner and a shunnee .... some people seem to get very agitated when i talk about the responsibility people have to make the right choices and that despite all the wrongs within the wts, people themselves have a role to play and some personal responsibility for the experience.. notice i said "some" responsibility, not "complete" - this doesn't absolve the wts for the things they do wrong in any way shape or form.

so please don't get argumentative about possible meanings and absolutes - of course the wts has a significant role to play but we need to decide what we're trying to achieve here and why the personal choice is so important.. i'm also not talking about actual crimes that the wts should answer for.

if they cover up child abuse for instance, they absolutely should be reported immediately.

wisdomfrombelow

Most witnesses consider the treatment of "untouchables" in India to be cruel and unfair. But they can't see the same thing in their own behavior. They would revolt if the Society demanded that they give them their entire paycheck and the governing body would give them whatever they think is needed to live from that. But when something similar is announced to the congregation's money, they instantly obey and don't complain. If members had wider interaction with non-witnesses they would see that they create the monster they fear.

Apathy would squelch shunning. Reporting everything you see and do to the elders would stop and then there would be less people disfellowshipped and hence less shunned until it stopped being relevant. If people realized that if they hide there sins for a few years then they elders don't even have to form judicial committees per the Shepherd the Flock book the elders might go towards a don't ask don't tell policy.

If people realize that they have the control then things will be much different. But that realization is hard for some people to grasp.

112

Did an EX-JW wake you up to TTATT or did you put the effort to wake up yourself?

by John Aquila in

how many of us were woken up by some apostate yelling false prophets at a convention?.

how many of us were woken up by someone holding a sign and yelling, what happened to 1975.

how many of us were coerced to investigate the wt because some ex-jw pulled up a bunch of old watchtowers magazines and told us to read the false predictions?.

wisdomfrombelow

As a born in, it was many things. Having access to old publications and reading them helped me see that things weren't right in the old days. Being friends with "spiritually weak" and "questioning" JWs also helped. I also got help while in the ministry by getting questions from people in the field that I couldn't answer from the bible but had to use "the Society says" as an authority.

Most people don't listen to someone who they are adversarial to so it is unlikely that EX-JWs would influence a JW because even talking to them could get the JW disfellowshipped. Everyone has to think and put some effort into making such a huge change as that but I can say that I was definitely not close minded and I enjoyed finding out things even if they were negative.

44

It's not the same religion anymore.

by punkofnice in

that was a quote from a dyed in the wool jw recently.

it was a complaint.. we all know that with 'new light(tm)' that the watchtower corporation's version of 'religion' has kept changing for a long time.

since i remember.....and i go back a long way too.

wisdomfrombelow

Those disgusting popes in Brooklyn are only after money and power.

I sometimes wonder which is more important to them, money or power. I know they go hand-in-hand and the corporation needs money to survive but I could see them being less "hands on" controlling if it was accompanied with sufficient increase in funds. I wonder how that would play out...

29

me and my new girlfriend

by justthenorm in

you see ive started dating this girl and her family is of strong jehova belief.

now i am not i do see certain things in there studie that is true in my opinion but ive never really been a religion type of person.

i think i want to marry her but i am not a jehovas witness and am not looking to be anytime at all she says that is ok and we can still get married but i dont know how its possible or where we would even do it please i need advice

wisdomfrombelow

I have to wonder why you are asking a group of strangers about who you should marry. We don't know her and we don't know you. We know the doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses but that is it. Having a religious incompatibility is a HUGE problem for many people. But there are a lot of other things that are just as big or bigger issues.

I have known some Jehovah Witness women who would not convert you or would leave the religion for their husband. A lot of it depends on how she feels about you and what are her individual priorities. But that is for you to find out. We can give you "hypothetical situations" and give you things to ask her or ponder over but it is your decision and if you are not sure then you probably already have your answer.

I know Jews who work on the Sabbath, Muslims who eat pork, Catholics who use birth control and Jehovah's Witnesses who don't preach. Find out who she is and how she feels and then make your decision. And know yourself and understand that even if she was the same religion as you or if you converted that still won't assure success in marriage.

Good luck but it is your decision and we don't know her or know you so make sure you are ready for marriage before you marry anyone.

80

THE WATCHTOWER (STUDY EDITION) JANUARY 2016

by wifibandit in

pdf .

this issue contains the study articles for february 29 to april 3, 2016.. what about the number of those partaking at the memorial?12, 13. why should we not worry about the number of those who eat the bread and drink the wine at the memorial?12 in recent years, we have seen an increase in the number of those partaking at the memorial of christs death.

that trend contrasts with the decrease in the number of partakers that we saw for many decades.

wisdomfrombelow

Reading about their new numbering system and seeing how it is inconsistent between the public and study issues is really strange. I wonder why they didn't just use No 2 instead of "January" for the study edition? Did they not think publishers could figure that out? Would it make it too easy to confuse with the public edition that they might inadvertently offer the study edition in the ministry? It is just another oddity.

37

What’s the deal with all the Smart-Educated JWs?

by John Aquila in

we talk a lot about most jws being uneducated, uninformed, and that they lack critical thinking skills, but in my area there is a lot of jws that went to the university, medical school, law school, and came back to the organization.

in my circuit, that i know of, we had two electrical engineers, one computer engineer with a ph.d. eight teachers with a bachelors degree and three of those with a masters in education.

we had two medical doctors, one was a pediatrician who closed his business about 3 years ago and went to bethel.

wisdomfrombelow

I also have noticed that the well-educated witnesses tend to associate with each other and therefore it reinforces their willingness to stay. Some of them also "try harder" by pioneering and reaching out to show that the Society is wrong by saying worldly education will lead you away from Jehovah.

Also, some of them seem to be drawn to the foreign-language groups since they can use their mind learning a new language instead of just going to a mind-numbing english language meeting. Also, if they marry less-educated witnesses there might be a challenge to defend their education by staying in as well.

I know many of them that see the flaws but don't know how to get out or don't want to suffer the change in social status that leaving will result in.

94

What other Shenanigans can we expect to see in the next 2 years?

by John Aquila in

its been a little over 2 years since i left the watchtower.

in that time the magazines have been cut, the birth of jwtv, jw-org.

carts for preaching, removed district overseers, cut assemblies, demand all the money from the congregations, stop construction and layoff bethelites, change the format of the tmschool .

wisdomfrombelow

Rank and file publishers being asked to create a user account on jw.borg by signing up with their full name, country of residence, the name of their congregation and a special, unique publisher code given to them by the service overseer in the congregation. That way, Watchtower can authenticate that the person signing up is a true active JW.

That is exactly what they don't want. They want any direct responsibility or oversight of the publishers to be handled by their henchmen. They really don't care if someone gets the "JW Only" materials. They care about the "Elder Only" materials. They don't care about the publishers as individuals, they only care about them as collective groups.

I could envision them changing the names of the magazines. (Awake has undergone 2 name changes). Something more modern and that would give the publishers something new to be distracted by. They could also charge congregations or circuits a fee and then visit and interview select publishers and have it appear on their TV channel or something like that.

Just like they charge back the cost of the COs visit they could find a way to get more money in exchange for more exposure on their website. Or maybe they will find a way to give a title to someone who gives a tithe so they will be called a modern day Nazarite or something else and then they can highlight that not everyone can give 10% of their time to be a pioneer but they can give 10% of their income and be something else. (Just like they had something for construction workers.)

225

Cult or Religion

by Richard C B in

what is a cult and what is a religion?

its open to debate.

who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?

wisdomfrombelow

To OP,

Since you have started this thread I would suggest you define the terms "cult" and "religion" so that it is clear to everyone and yourself what you mean. The definition in a dictionary is not always the same as the connotation that the word carries to certain individuals.

For a long time the Jehovah's Witnesses didn't even refer to themselves as a religion. They self-identified as something else. What most people seem to agree on are the characteristics of the organization and how many view it them as dangerous. If you call it a cult or call it a tulc or luct or anything else...that is just a series of letters. When you get to describing what they are, then each person can decide what word or word encompass it.

26

1914 'Big A' WT Retraction/Apology?!

by lurkernomore in

so i just met with an old 'friend' who wanted a 'chat' after no contact for the best part of 4 years.

she obviously heard about the wonderful news of my abrupt fade :d. i guess i wanted to prove to myself that any future meet ups/chats with jw's would be pointless.

needless to say i proved myself right.

wisdomfrombelow

The only thing I know of that might be considered something like that was when they printed that Rutherford admitted he made "an ass of himself" regarding the 1925 resurrection of ancient worthies...