After reading the threads on this forum, the collapse of Mr. Unthank's crusade against the Watchtower Society seems to have some people riled up. I haven't followed the outworking of events that led up to the case's dismissal by the public prosecutor.
I did notice that there was a formal motion to charge the "faithful and discreet slave" and prosecute this entity as "corporate accused.”
According to the Watchtower society, “the faithful and discreet slave” is the earthly (physical) aspect of spiritual order (a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation) anointed by God that shares in the direction of his people and will ascend to immortality in a supernatural realm upon their demise.
Just as all members of ancient Israel formed one “servant,” so also all anointed Christians on earth at any one time form one “faithful and discreet slave.” Watchtower 11/01/2007
The Watchtower Society isn't the first religion to incorporate the idea that an order of deities and transcendent humans exercise authority over their subordinates. This belief is common in esoteric organizations.
In magical orders, the “secret chiefs” is a spiritual hierarchy responsible for overseeing the operations of esoteric organizations. Several occultists claimed to belong to or to have contacted these supernatural beings and made these communications known to others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn
The Golden Dawn system was based on hierarchy and initiation like the Masonic Lodges; however women were admitted on an equal basis with men. The "Golden Dawn" was the first of three Orders, although all three are often collectively referred to as the "Golden Dawn". The First Order taught esoteric philosophy based on the Hermetic Qabalah and personal development through study and awareness of the four Classical Elements as well as the basics of astrology, tarot divination, and geomancy. The Second or "Inner" Order, the Rosae Rubeae et Aureae Crucis (the Ruby Rose and Cross of Gold), taught proper magic, including scrying, astral travel, and alchemy. The Third Order was that of the "Secret Chiefs", who were said to be highly skilled; they supposedly directed the activities of the lower two orders by spirit communication with the Chiefs of the Second Order.
A person has to rely on an organization's religious beliefs to define the respective roles of an organization's spiritual hierarchy and thus may have limited or no relevance in a legal proceeding. If you attempt to charge an organization's spiritual hierarchy with a crime in a legal proceeding, you may just end up chasing a bunch of ghosts, because the entity has no formal identity in a secular court.
An interesting aspect of the “faithful and discreet slave” is its formal identity is limited in scope even within Jehovah's organization. There's no formal appointment to the “faithful and discreet slave's” membership status by anyone in the organization. There's no membership list held by anyone at Bethel headquarters of those that comprise “the faithful and discreet slave.” This has something to do with why the Watchtower society's lawyers stated they do not exist as an "incorporated body," nor do they exist as a tangible "body" of Christians subject to prosecution, but as a “theological arrangement.”
For future reference, if there's a decision to prosecute the Watchtower society by any person(s), it may be best to issue a formal injunction that's definitive in a court of law.
Being adapted to modern conditions and requirements and being obliged to render to Caesar Caesar’s things, the visible theocratic organization today has a legally established service agency, the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, incorporated in 1884 under the laws of the state of Pennsylvania, United States of America. (Matt. 22:21) It is with this legal corporation that the governing body of the “faithful and discreet slave” class is closely associated for administrative, legal and publishing purposes, to see that “this good news of the kingdom” is preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations. Watchtower 09/01/1954
I don't know why this case against the Watchtower society collapsed, but waging theocratic warfare in a secular court didn't help any. That does nothing but weaken the credibility of the prosecution.
Celestial
JoinedPosts by Celestial
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Mr. Unthank and Theocratic Warfare
by Celestial inafter reading the threads on this forum, the collapse of mr. unthank's crusade against the watchtower society seems to have some people riled up.
i haven't followed the outworking of events that led up to the case's dismissal by the public prosecutor.
i did notice that there was a formal motion to charge the "faithful and discreet slave" and prosecute this entity as "corporate accused.. .
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Celestial
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Latest Watchtower page 30... They have some nerve to put this!
by TimothyT inone thing that i have always noticed even when i was a jw is that the jw org has lots and lots and lots of rules for allsorts of stupid petty rules which make no difference.
when you read the bible you see how they are clearly in the wrong here and are acting like the pharisees themselves, who imposed so much pressure on others to conform to the law.
am i missing something here!?!?
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Celestial
Mary, I didn't have the unwavering faith in the resurrection as one of Jehovah's Witnesses so I may not have rejected a blood transfusion. There's mention made in the Mosaic law about the misuse of blood. Under this same law King David murdered Uriah (which is obviously more serious than the misuse of blood) and was forgiven.
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Latest Watchtower page 30... They have some nerve to put this!
by TimothyT inone thing that i have always noticed even when i was a jw is that the jw org has lots and lots and lots of rules for allsorts of stupid petty rules which make no difference.
when you read the bible you see how they are clearly in the wrong here and are acting like the pharisees themselves, who imposed so much pressure on others to conform to the law.
am i missing something here!?!?
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Celestial
This is no different than a Witness who chooses to die rather than accept a blood transfusion, because they've been taught by the Governing Body, that if they do accept a transfusion, Jehovah will murder them at Armageddon.
This is dumb. I've never believed something like this, that God condemns people to Armageddon if you make a mistake, even if it's serious, although the idea of Armageddon in itself leads some to believe the God of the Bible is a sadist. But then again, so does the hellfire doctrine. You say I'm an idiot because I said I didn't believe something irrational. Some of the most intelligent people I know used to be members of Christendom and have become atheists. They believe they were mistaken, not irrational.
I guess it's ironic if you feel you were taken in by a “million irrational beliefs.” Did you not have the ability to articulate when you were a Witness? -
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Latest Watchtower page 30... They have some nerve to put this!
by TimothyT inone thing that i have always noticed even when i was a jw is that the jw org has lots and lots and lots of rules for allsorts of stupid petty rules which make no difference.
when you read the bible you see how they are clearly in the wrong here and are acting like the pharisees themselves, who imposed so much pressure on others to conform to the law.
am i missing something here!?!?
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Celestial
Really? What's the difference between the people that were forced to drink the Kool-Aid provided by Jim Jones & Co. and the thousands of Witnesses who are forced to commit suicide by not accepting a blood transfusion? There.isn't.one.
Survivor Odell Rhodes of the Jonestown incident, stated that while the poison was squirted in some children's mouths, there was no panic or emotional outburst and people looked like they were "in a trance." These were obviously some sick people. I don't know if suicide or murder for a “higher purpose” was a part of the belief system of the People's Temple, but it sounds like the Temple members would do whatever Jim Jones said because of an irrational belief that he was inspired by a higher power. I never believed anything that irrational as one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
I can try and understand the theory of mind-control when an extreme set of circumstances presents itself like Jonestown or the Heaven's Gate cult, but I can't relate to it. The theory of mind-control is potentially harmful. It absolves someone of personal responsibility for their actions.
You said the blood issue was non-scriptural. Jehovah's Witnesses may be mistaken, but they believe that it is. -
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Why did you become one of Jehovah's Witnesses?
by Celestial inany other reason than the arbitrary explanation that you were brainwashed or seduced by a millenarianist doomsday cult?.
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Celestial
Why do I feel my inquiry presses buttons?
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Why did you become one of Jehovah's Witnesses?
by Celestial inany other reason than the arbitrary explanation that you were brainwashed or seduced by a millenarianist doomsday cult?.
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Celestial
I was 10 years old and I didn't have a choice.
I was a born-in. I was hoping to hear from those that weren't.
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Why did you become one of Jehovah's Witnesses?
by Celestial inany other reason than the arbitrary explanation that you were brainwashed or seduced by a millenarianist doomsday cult?.
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Celestial
Any other reason than the arbitrary explanation that you were brainwashed or seduced by a millenarianist doomsday cult?
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Give Some Logical Points To Prove That JWs Do Not Have The Truth
by minimus inthe one thing that got to me was that this religion is illogical.
their "logic" is ridiculous, especially when it comes to their blood doctrine.
downright weird!.
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Celestial
Scientific truth consists of the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.
Most major religions (including Jehovah's Witnesses) believe in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world. The notion of the supernatural isn't incompatible with the objectivity and regularity of nature as identified by reason and scientific logic. But to some extent, there is no credible evidence of miracles, magic, or other supernatural phenomena in nature.
The religion of Jehovah's Witnesses rests on the premise that the Bible is supernatural phenomena, the inspired word of God, a miracle.
This draws into question what you experienced as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Was it all just what was on printed page or was there something else to the religion. -
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Latest Watchtower page 30... They have some nerve to put this!
by TimothyT inone thing that i have always noticed even when i was a jw is that the jw org has lots and lots and lots of rules for allsorts of stupid petty rules which make no difference.
when you read the bible you see how they are clearly in the wrong here and are acting like the pharisees themselves, who imposed so much pressure on others to conform to the law.
am i missing something here!?!?
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Celestial
Eggnog, you are without a doubt, one of the sorriest, most pathetic excuses for either a 'christian', a debator, or even a human being that I've had the misfortune of coming across. Your willfull ignorance, your attempted sleight-of-hand when it comes to the embarassing and non-scriptural doctrines, and your misplaced loyalty to a cult that wouldn't hesitate to kick your ass to the curb if they knew you were on this site, is a great demonstration to what mind-control can do to a person. You're not fooling anyone on this site, with the sole exception of yourself.
Mary, the Peoples Temple cult headed off by Jim Jones which is best known for the November 18, 1978 mass suicide of 913 Temple members can conveniently be attributed to mind-control. This is not the case with Jehovah’s Witnesses, especially if they happened to be in your family. In retrospective, my existence as one of Jehovah's Witness wasn't that of a brainwashed robot.
If someone knew or had a family member that died do to the blood policy and would characterize them as controlled by a cult, I will not contest their opinion. I'll just say that this opinion isn't coherent with my self-image or those in my social environment.
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More anti-apostate rhetoric from the Watchtower - are they running scared?
by cedars inyes, the may 15th watchtower is now available for download from jw.org.. the final study article, on page 26, directs another salvo at apostates - and warns witnesses not to try arguing with them on the internet:.
indeed, we ought to move as far away from wrongdoing as possible and not see how close we can get to it without being overcome by sin.
for instance, we need to guard against succumbing to apostasy, a sin that would make us unfit to glorify god.
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Celestial
Huh? I am saying they don't live up to their own statements about being open to an examination when it comes to their own religion.
A religion is a specific set of beliefs and practices agreed upon by a number of persons. This set of beliefs in the context of Christianity can always conform to “God's Word,” the literary text that defines the ecclesiastical standard of morality in the Christian world. JWs are open to an examination of their religion from the perspective of Christendom, deism and secularism (atheism). JWs are also open to the examination of eastern religions (e.g. Buddhism, Hinduism) although they are bizarre in contrast with the physical laws of nature.