"....And what if it IS the truth????"
Many people upon belief would shudder like Satan and the demons. Believing in God and the truth can be two different things.
You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. James 2:19
Satan and the demons believe in God and the truth. According to the Bible however, Satan has the capacity to “blind” human minds and create a system of disbelief.
If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4
Celestial
JoinedPosts by Celestial
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Celestial
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Crisis of Conscience Chapter 6: Double Standards
by Celestial inthe pdf of crisis of conscience is available online.
i jumped to chapter 6, double standards and examined the situation regarding jehovah's witnesses position in malawi and the mandatory requirement to buy a malawi congress party (mcp) card.
i may have missed something, but it should be glaringly obvious what took place here.
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Celestial
The PDF of Crisis of Conscience is available online. I jumped to chapter 6, “Double Standards” and examined the situation regarding Jehovah's Witnesses position in Malawi and the mandatory requirement to buy a Malawi Congress Party (MCP) card. I may have missed something, but it should be glaringly obvious what took place here. My response isn't apologetics, just a logical response to what I read.
The Witnesses in Malawi never petitioned the Watchtower Society headquarters in reference to their stand on political neutrality and the WTS never made any direct statements to the Witnesses in Malawi about the specific direction they should take. The WTS basically took a stance of individualism on the part of themselves and others while giving do recognition to the stand the Malawian Witnesses took.
On one occasion, Malcolm Vigo was requested by some party officials to visit a brother from the Jumbe Congregation who had been arrested for refusing to buy a party card. Before entering the room, Brother Vigo prayed silently. It was obvious from the outset that these officials were hoping that Brother Vigo would tell them that the Watch Tower Society had clearly told its members that it was wrong to buy party cards. Instead, he stressed that the Society does not tell anyone what to do and that each person must make his own decision on the matter. The party officials were not happy with this explanation. Questions were fired from all sides. In their eagerness to trip him up, the officials would pose another question even before Brother Vigo had answered the previous one. After two hours of questioning, the brother was finally released. No party card had been bought. Yearbook 1999 pp. 176-178It is because Jehovah’s Witnesses refuse to buy the Malawi Congress Party card. This card declares the holder to be a member of the ruling political party of Malawi. But for Jehovah’s Witnesses to buy a political card and thus join a political party would be an open denial of what they believe and stand for. Awake 08/08/1976 p.5
What they believe and stand for is not necessarily what others stand for. The Witnesses in Mexico directly queried the headquarters in Brooklyn, NY.
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/malawi-mexico-oath-allegiance.php
June 2, 1960
“As to those who are relieved of military training by a money transaction with the officials who are involved therewith, this is on par with what is done in other Latin American countries where brothers have paid for their relief through some military official in order to retain their freedom for theocratic activities. If members of the military establishment are willing to accept such an arrangement upon the payment of a fee then that is the responsibility of these representatives of the national organization. In such a case the money paid does not go to the military establishment, but is appropriated by the individual who undertakes the arrangement. If the consciences of certain brothers allow them to enter into such an arrangement for their continued freedom we have no objection. Of course, if they would get into any difficulties over their course of action then they would have to shoulder such difficulties themselves, and we could not offer them any assistance. But if the arrangement is current down there and is recognized by the inspectors who do not make any inquiries into the veracity of the matter then the matter can be passed by for the accruing advantages. Should a military emergency arise and confront these brothers with their marching card it would oblige them to make a decision by which they could not extricate themselves by a money payment and their mettle would be tested and they would have to demonstrate outright where they stand and prove that they are in favor of Christian neutrality in a determined test.
Faithfully yours in the Kingdom ministry,
Watchtower B.&T. Society
of Pennsylvania
September 5, 1969
Not that we are giving our approval in this matter, but it is their conscience, not ours, that has allowed them to take the course of action they have taken.
We cannot decide the lives of everyone in the world.
Watchtower B.&T. Society
of PennsylvaniaIt seems the Watchtower headquarters yielded to a position for the allowance of individuals based on their own conscience and decision making capacity, to evade persecution or stand up to it, without interference from the WTS and to not use the governing body as a culprit.
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Sex Before Marriage
by Wishididntknow inhow many witness couples percentage wise do you think slip up and have sex before wedding day?
did you?.
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Sex Before Marriage
by Wishididntknow inhow many witness couples percentage wise do you think slip up and have sex before wedding day?
did you?.
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Celestial
I never married the Witness girls I got in trouble with. It was actually unsettling to find out the pioneer sister I was dating had an uninhibited dark side and an appetite for flesh. This didn't seem to matter to the elders during my judicial committee meeting. They said, “You violated her.”
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Problematic JWs
by Celestial indid you ever have a problem with one of jehovah's witnesses?.
i always got along with everyone very well except for a couple of people.
this experience was partly my fault.
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Celestial
Did you ever have a problem with one of Jehovah's Witnesses?
I always got along with everyone very well except for a couple of people. This experience was partly my fault. There was this really nice looking sister with an unbelieving husband who was an alcoholic at a congregation I attended. I think her husband's alcohol problem caused her anxiety and adversely affected her personality. She was flirtatious with brothers at the meeting and even offended some sisters with the way she acted. In my opinion, this was an outlet for a tumultuous relationship at home.
Once she asked me for my e-mail address to send me an information about a gathering she was having at her house. I couldn't attend, so I sent a friendly message back explaining I had other plans for the day. The correspondence gravitated away from formal discourse and into conversations about personal matters. She used the term co-dependent to describe her relationship with her husband.
Her interest in talking to me was mainly because she had a friend that was dating a brother she thought was 'bad association.' She was hoping someone else would come along that was more suitable for her friend. So, we all had dinner one night. Around this same time, she sent me an e-mail explaining that she needed to get away from her husband. Out of poor judgment, I mistakenly responded back with something inappropriate. When her husband acquired knowledge of the correspondence, I received a very nasty e-mail from him accusing me of stalking and harassing his family. He said, if I ever contacted anyone in his family by any means, he would take legal action against me. This was total BS, because every conversation we had was mutual and very friendly. I kept a record of the correspondence.
I just avoided this sister like a plague at the meetings. If she sat on one side of the Kingdom Hall, I sat on the other. Eight months later, I came to the meeting late and an attendant sat me right behind this sister. When she saw me, she gave me the dirtiest 'go to hell' look I've ever seen. I didn't know it at the time, but what had happened, is the sister she wanted me to hook up with got dumped by the the brother she thought was 'bad association' and her friend quit attending meetings. Like I remotely had anything to with that.
At the time, I didn’t know what her deal was. None-the-less, when I got home from the meeting, I e-mailed an apology. I thought to myself, what's the worst thing that can happen? They'll go to the police because I sent an e-mail? At best, any member of law enforcement will explain to them what the laws actually are and teach this couple how to use an e-mail filter.
At the next meeting, her husband showed up drunk and assaulted me in the parking lot and started a fist fight as I was walking to my car. He obviously wasn't thinking clearly, because he did this in front of several people. Had someone called the police, he would have been arrested for public intoxication and assault and battery. Some brothers broke up the fight and said this doesn't need to be going on here because this is Jehovah's house. The whole thing felt surreal because I hadn't been in a physical fight since I was sixteen, let alone at the Kingdom Hall.
The next day, the elders showed up at my house and asked me to attend another congregation. I disagreed and told them I wasn't going anywhere. This sister's husband attended the meetings for the next few weeks and apologized to me. There was also a local needs part during the next service meeting about not pressing charges against members of the congregation. The funny thing is that none of this would have happened if it wasn't for e-mail. You'd be surprised at the trouble text messaging has caused some people. -
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Movies with Jehovah's Witnesses
by Celestial ini can recall a few.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki801ccg9yo.
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Celestial
I can recall a few...
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Bioethics of the refusal of blood by Jehovah's Witnesses: Should bioethical deliberation consider dissidents' views?
by Celestial inkeep themselves from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood and what is strangled and from fornication.
acts 21:25. .
keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication.
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Celestial
I know that Baylor College of Medicine indoctrinates their students with evolution.
Indoctrinates?
I stated the overall position in the scientific community, not necessarily my own. Baylor acknowledges theism out of respect for persons of faith, but it's not taught as a part of their curriculum.
http://www.baylor.edu/biology/index.php?id=77372
Science and Faith Resources
"The Bible and science are not out of harmony with each other….. when the heart is responsive to God, the mind is usually without prejudice to investigate all facts in search of the truth."
1923. Dr. S. Brooks, president of Baylor University, report to the Baptist General Convention of Texas in response to criticisms on the teaching of evolution at Baylor.
We in the Biology Department are persons of science and faith. Sometimes we are asked by individuals outside of science how we integrate our faith and our careers in science. For this reason we offer this list of references as a starting point for others to learn about the many ways scientists integrate a life of faith and science.
The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief.
Francis Collins, 2006. Free Press.
Science and Creation: The Search for Understanding.
John C. Polkinghorne, 1988. Templeton.
Finding Darwin's God: A Scientist's Search for Common Ground Between God and Evolution.
Kenneth Miller, 1999. Harper Collins.
Perspectives on an Evolving Creation.
Keith Miller (Ed.). 2003. Wm. B. Erdmans.
Coming to Peace With Science: Bridging the Worlds Between Faith and Biology.
Darrel R. Falk. InterVarsity Press. 2004. ISBN 0-8308-2742-0
Rocks of Ages: Science and Religion in the Fullness of Life.
Stephen Gould, 1999. Ballantine. -
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Bioethics of the refusal of blood by Jehovah's Witnesses: Should bioethical deliberation consider dissidents' views?
by Celestial inkeep themselves from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood and what is strangled and from fornication.
acts 21:25. .
keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication.
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Celestial
I have had this discussion with many in the medical field, doctors in particular. The general sentiment is that debating theology is a waste of time because so often theological preference is not determined by logical construct.
There are a few doctors who will touch the discussion with a patient, but in most cases this is either to measure the basis of the person's position on blood or to convince them to accept blood regardless of theology.
Oddly enough, among licensed medical physicians who are also Jehovah's Witnesses never one time have I been able to engage on in a discussion of the logical construct of Watchtower's blood doctrine. They avoid the discussion like laypersons avoid the plague.
I know that Baylor College of Medicine indoctrinates their students with evolution.
http://www.baylor.edu/biology/index.php?id=77368
Statement of Evolution
"Evolution, a foundational principle of modern biology, is supported by overwhelming scientific evidence and is accepted by the vast majority of scientists. Because it is fundamental to the understanding of modern biology, the faculty in the Biology Department at Baylor University, Waco, TX, teach evolution throughout the biology curriculum. We are in accordance with the American Association for Advancement of Science's statement on evolution. We are a science department, so we do not teach alternative hypotheses or philosophically deduced theories that cannot be tested rigorously."
A medical practitioner would probably be predisposed that the Bible is an unrelated assortment or collection of heterogeneous fragments from Jewish and Christian literature.
I read in part 2 what was suggested that a physician could present to a patient that's one of Jehovah's Witnesses. It seems to address the blood issue from this perspective, short of saying that the Bible is an unrelated assortment or collection of heterogeneous fragments from Jewish and Christian literature and the blood doctrine is esoteric and cannot be tested rigorously . -
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Bioethics of the refusal of blood by Jehovah's Witnesses: Should bioethical deliberation consider dissidents' views?
by Celestial inkeep themselves from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood and what is strangled and from fornication.
acts 21:25. .
keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication.
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Celestial
My father is a retired hemotologist/oncologist. My brother and sister are both doctors. Put simply, they think that the JW position on blood transfusions is irrational and unsupported medical science. They don't care about the religious arguments at all.
Do you feel the same way about the religious arguments of dissidents? That was part of what I discussed.
National Center for Biotechnology Information
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1377670/
Abstract
Jehovah's Witnesses' (JWs) refusal of blood transfusions has recently gained support in the medical community because of the growing popularity of "no-blood" treatment. Many physicians, particularly so-called "sympathetic doctors", are establishing a close relationship with this religious organization. On the other hand, it is little known that this blood doctrine is being strongly criticized by reform-minded current and former JWs who have expressed conscientious dissent from the organization. Their arguments reveal religious practices that conflict with many physicians' moral standards. They also suggest that a certain segment of "regular" or orthodox JWs may have different attitudes towards the blood doctrine. The author considers these viewpoints and argues that there are ethical flaws in the blood doctrine, and that the medical community should reconsider its supportive position. The usual physician assumption that JWs are acting autonomously and uniformly in refusing blood is seriously questioned.
Full textFull text is available as a scanned copy of the original print version. Get a printable copy (PDF file) of the complete article (1.3M), or click on a page image below to browse page by page. Links to PubMed are also available for Selected References.
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Bioethics of the refusal of blood by Jehovah's Witnesses: Should bioethical deliberation consider dissidents' views?
by Celestial inkeep themselves from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood and what is strangled and from fornication.
acts 21:25. .
keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication.
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Celestial
Ouch. No takers. I guess my perspective is no different than contrasting the secular and religious perspectives of Dr. Kevorkian, assisted suicide and abortion. The only difference with Jehovah's Witnesses and the blood issue is there's little public or political interest in either side of the debate.
