Posts by DogGone

84

100 things I learned from watching "The Prodigal Son" DVD

by Perversion of a truth in

these are things that were said or insinuated, i start with the first 15.

enjoy!!.

1. working for a corporation in the city makes you fall out of the truth.. 2. if you become inactive or leave jehovah you will make your whole family sad and ruin everything.. 3. all worldly people cheat.. 4. all worldly people curse.. 5.

DogGone

Thanks for bumping this thread up. Hands down the most hilarious thread I've read in ages. What a bunch of clever people we have here!

51

Is this proof that JWs are false prophets?

by Comatose in

.

DogGone

Wow... Comatose and Bennyk... Wow. Thank-you for sharing these quotes.

59

BOTR- Announcement

by Band on the Run in

jw
friends

law school is obviously not the hardest program to follow.

it isn't something that can be replicated on the internet.

a first year student can find the law.

DogGone

Best wished BOTR. Sometimes a thick skin is needed around here. Especially if you are trying to bring perspective to a topic where passions run high. I will miss your input.

19

Sodomite resurrection flip-flops -- recent WT confession?

by FatFreek 2005 in

within the last few years i understand watchtower has issued a concession (no apology) of minor proportion.

they don't admit to the avalanche of some 8 sequential positions (yes, no, yes, no, ...) of, "will the sodomites receive a resurrection?".

i think they admit to about three of them.

DogGone

A more charitable list, IMHO:

Original view - Resurrected

1st Change - 1941 - Not Resurrected

2nd Change - 1965 - Resurrected

3rd Change - 1988 - Not resurrected

I think the 1967 reference is not conclusive in suggesting the people will not be resurrected. To me it is drawing a comparison to how the cities were never rebuilt as they were destroyed by fire and sulphur with how souls will be destroyed by the fire and sulphur of Gehenna. I see how a reader might see this as pertaining to the souls therein, but it does not appear clear to me.

I don't think I need to elaborate on how 1988 was one change in thinking by the GB, not multiple changes.

19

Sodomite resurrection flip-flops -- recent WT confession?

by FatFreek 2005 in

within the last few years i understand watchtower has issued a concession (no apology) of minor proportion.

they don't admit to the avalanche of some 8 sequential positions (yes, no, yes, no, ...) of, "will the sodomites receive a resurrection?".

i think they admit to about three of them.

DogGone

FatFreek,

You are correct - this has long bothered me about this list. Clearly, there are years when a change is made and some publications are already in print. Particularily with stitch bound volumes like the Insight books. There was one change of teachings in 1988 - not a flip-flop back and forth. Likewise, one of the references in the 60's is to the destruction of the city, not the people.

There are so many legitimate reasons to call out the WT for the shifting sand that I cannot fathom why we need to invent more by a lack of charitable reading or by obvious order manipulation.

In the early 90's I came across this argumentation and it reinforced my conditioned response that apostates lie and twist things.

32

U.S. Army admits to widespread cultural pedophilia in Afghanistan

by RottenRiley in

my atheist, agnostic and deist family members, why don't we attack this insanity more?

dr. richard dawkins is finally calling out islam for it's true nature, i hope he is balanced because i don't want him to get killed by these whack jobs.

i enjoy listening to dr. dawkins debate and would like him to attack their false religion like he lambaste's christians, i guess it's a tight-wire act he must follow or they would kill him.

DogGone

Vidiot - "Institutionalized sexual victimization of young people in an area with a long history of authoritarian religion? Gosh; never saw that one coming."

Very well put!

23

Is there a pedophile epidemic ?

by Snoozy in

after reading another thread on pedophiles i was wondering if there is a pedophile epidemic or is it just that we now have more access to the information?

it seems like everywhere you read there are more and more cases being reported.

are we becoming a nation with no morals at all?

DogGone

Band on the Run, while I do not know of a brain scan that can "show" or diagnose pedophilia, there has been some interesting brain scan studies which demonstrate clear differences. I can't speak to the credibility of these studies, but they are interesting:

Pedophilic perpetrators showed a significant decrease of right amygdalar volume, compared with healthy
controls (P=.001). We observed reduced gray matter in the right amygdala, hypothalamus (bilaterally), septal regions,
substantia innominata, and bed nucleus of the striae terminalis. In 8 of the 15 perpetrators, enlargement of
the anterior temporal horn of the right lateral ventricle that adjoins the amygdala could be recognized by routine
qualitative clinical assessment. Smaller right amygdalar volumes were correlated with the propensity to commit
uniform pedophilic sexual offenses exclusively (P=.006) but not with age (P=.89).

Ref - Brain Pathology in Pedophilic Offenders - ARCH GEN PSYCHIATRY/VOL 64, JUNE 2007

This paper references the above study as well as the author's own:

So far, three research groups have published structural MRI studies of pedophiles: my own group at CAMH in Canada (Cantor et al., 2008), and two other groups, both in Germany (Schiffer et al., 2007; Schiltz et al., 2007). The CAMH team compared large groups of pedophilic men with men who committed nonsexual offenses; we found that the pedophilic men had significantly less tissue in two wide-spread regions of the brain. These two regions (called the superior fronto-occipital fasciculus and the right arcuate fasciculus) are not at all what previous researchers had expected to find (including us). Instead of being in charge of any specific function of the brain (such as self-control or sexual response), these particular brain structures are made up of “cables” (or axons) that connect other brain regions. This suggests the possibility that sexual attraction to children versus adults is not caused by some difference in any one region of the brain, but in the way that multiple regions work together. Neuroscientists refer to this as a partial “disconnection syndrome.”

When comparing pedophilic and nonpedophilic men, one must remain careful not to confuse cause with effect. That is, one must consider carefully whether the brain differences we detected cause pedophilia or whether some aspect of being pedophilic caused the brain differences. Previous research findings suggests that it is more likely for the brain differences to be causing pedophilia than for the other way around...

Ref - MRI research on pedophilia: What ATSA members should know - ATSA Forum, Fall 2008

Sir82, stated "a child is, by law, incapable of giving consent. Sex with a child is always, 100% of the time, rape." That is a popular oversimplification of the law, at least so far as it applies in my country. As EndofMysteries pointed out, even the term child varies. In Canada, what I would commonly call a "child" can give consent. Consider the law in Canada:

Age of consent is 16 years for all sexual activity (raised from 14 in 2008) EXCEPT
Age of consent is 18 years when the activity exploits the young person (parent, coach, teacher, etc) EXCEPT
Age of consent is 14 years when the partner is less than 5 years older and the relationship is not exploitative (parent, coach, teacher, etc) EXCEPT
Age of consent is 14 when the partner is more than 5 years older AND they are legally married ("solemnization" of marriage requirements) EXCEPT
Age of consent is 12 years when the partners is less than 2 years older and not in a relationship of trust (babysitter, etc)

Under many systems of law the concern is less about "consent" at some magic number than about differences in power and authority. Children will, by and large, be sexual. Denying any ability to give consent criminalizes and victimizes all manner of sexual activity that is a frequent part of social development.

The law is a poor form of moral argument. Law should be informed by societal values, not the other way around. As a rather crude analogy - "The law states a youth is, by law, under 21. Therefore giving beer to someone under 21 is always irresponsible and negligent". Frankly, the rest of Earth (Muslim countries notwithstanding) will collectively roll their eyes.

I think discussions about consent and cause/effect are beside the point. Harmful activity should be proscribed. As a thought experiment, if it could be 100% proven that a 12 year old gave full consent in full understanding, would that make it right? I would say the answer is no.

As an aside, the concept of "consent" can be a mental tool used by non-violent offenders - they generally work away at getting enough "consent" to satisfy their conscience - to allow themselves to offend. The illustration I use is with the drug heroin. A damaged child may crave it, may ask for it, even beg for it. It is still morally outrageous, unacceptable, and illegal to give it. In my experience, pedophiles with a conscience (a concept that will be hard for some to grasp) generally agree that giving heroin to a child is wrong under any circumstance; they then make the logical connection that the "consent" they thought they had was beside the point entirely. Of course, most people know that a large part of being an adult is curbing the "consent" of youth.

To the original thread topic, sexual abuse is, almost certainly, now much lower than at any time in recorded history. Herotodus spoke of how the Persians had taken up the practice with gusto when they learned it from the Greeks. And Herotodus is, as they say, the Father of History.

28

Argument with my Child "Why did I stay in the Organization so long?" Anger and Bitter Feelings.

by RottenRiley in

jw
friends

last night my third oldest child wanted to know why we stayed in the organization so long.

child is a third year college student enjoying all the classes this "wicked system" has to offer, the insatiable appetite for learning makes him want to argue and debate, i don't have the energy to debate because i don't feel good with all life has thrown our way.. .

"the only reason i went to meetings so long was because grandma and grandpa needed somebody to take them to meetings and cobe aunt and uncle and secretary aunt and uncle refused to talk to grandma for years, otherwise i would have stopped attending the kingdom hall because the kids were assholes and i was always the one who had to make "first contact", "i was the one who had to go around and meet and greet newbies while the regular jw wall-flowers (calebs) ignored all the visitors and new persons visiting our kingdom hall.

DogGone

You have some great perspective and advice above. All I can add is this:

- Don't let your children guilt trip or abuse you. Life wasn't perfect for them... so what? When is it? I've seen this guilt dynamic play out too many times. You love them, you did what you thought was right. This touches a nerve with me and reminds me of the relationship between my older brother and my mother. It is, in my opinion, too often abusive and guilt ridden (though having nothing to do with the WT).

- In time, hopefully, he will grow up and put on big boy pants and actually have some fond memories and laughter about his past. Surely it wasn't all bad. I had some fantastically great times in the cult. It's a part of who I am and the reason I can clean-up on the Bible categories in Jeopardy. (The only category I can out do my brilliant wife). Or perhaps he doesn't, perhaps he waters it, builds it, wallows in it, and blames all his misfortune on his upbringing. He finds like-minded souls on some online forum and spends his days growing his "Poison Tree." If so, see my last piece of advice.

- If he stays angry and directs guilt at you despite telling him you're sorry and that you did what you thought was right at the time, then you just have to shut the conversation down and refuse to be a punching back for his rage. Boundaries are healthy.

36

After years of Watchtower fighting the BAN in Russia.....

by Newly Enlightened in

i apologize if this topic was already covered, i didn't have time to look thru several pages of posts.... after several years of fighting their ban in russia.

russian court declares jw's literature extremist:.

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140113/186483571/russian-court-declares-jehovahs-witness-brochures-extremist.html?fb_action_ids=530487500391762&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5b1377130229215916%5d&action_type_map=%5b%22og.recommends%22%5d&action_ref_map=%5b%5d.

DogGone

AndDon'tCallMeShirley,

That is a shocking Watchtower quote - thank-you for sharing. Come to think of it, one Elder did tell me that my disfellowshipping was loving because in the old days I would have been stoned. I forgot the favourite part of my story, my best mate who had pretty much faded was disfellowshipped for attending a food and wine function with me. I wouldn't have thought they would actually followed through on the threat to DF you for socializing with DF'd people... until they did.

I agree that if the law allowed the Watchtower religion would be even more oppressive. There are national theocracies in action we can use as case studies. Bad people do bad things - but it takes religion/ideology to make good people do evil.

36

After years of Watchtower fighting the BAN in Russia.....

by Newly Enlightened in

i apologize if this topic was already covered, i didn't have time to look thru several pages of posts.... after several years of fighting their ban in russia.

russian court declares jw's literature extremist:.

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140113/186483571/russian-court-declares-jehovahs-witness-brochures-extremist.html?fb_action_ids=530487500391762&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5b1377130229215916%5d&action_type_map=%5b%22og.recommends%22%5d&action_ref_map=%5b%5d.

DogGone

While many of the freedoms the WT fights for, such as the freedom to go door to door, freedom to hold private assembly, freedom from discrimination, are, in fact, for their members, I do agree with some of the points in the above posts. They fight for freedom of expression and then psychologically torture members who write or speak freely against thier doctrine. (Yes, I do consider shunning a form of psychological torture)

Although using the word "admirable" was a poor choice on my part, I find the conclusion drawn above to be wanting. The expressed desire must be for MORE freedom, within the Tower and without. Smug satisfaction that the Watchtower is getting what it gives gets us nowhere - other than another successful volley in Russia's war on religious, sexual, and commercial liberty.

Can you be so blinded by hatred of the leaders of our former religion that you applaud the snuffing out of freedoms long wanted, scarcely granted, and quickly snatched?

This statement is too much:

Sadly, the restriction of freedoms within the WT organization due to the dictatorial mindset of the governing body are far more oppressive than anything Russia will do to Watchtower.

Surely you do not mean what you write? I have been counselled publically, I have been through several judicial committees, I have been publically reproved, I am disfellowshipped and presently I am shunned by everyone I socialized with for many years and by a sizable chunk of my family. That is certainly oppressive. The Russian state, on the other hand, is known for secret detentions, physical torture including beatings, electic shock to the genitals, and sexual abuse all while getting forced confessions for invented offences. The state has the power to place people in geater isolation than the WT - be it in prison or in actual isolation. You speak of what Russia will do to the Watchtower... to members of our former faith pushing outlawed literature....

Sometimes I feel posters have forgotten that "The Watchtower" is a collection of human beings.

As an aside:

The fact that the WT fought for the freedoms in their own interest misses the point. Almost every point of law is argued for self-interest. When the feudal barons forced King John to sign the Magna Carta they certainly weren't trying to provide liberty to their serfs. When signatories to the Declaration of Independence endorsed the line that "all men are created equal" they were not trying to free the slaves (later 3/5 a person) and certainly were not declaring women equal under law. The motives may be questionable, but we can still appreciate what their efforts afford us. Certainly in my country, Canada, Jehovah’s Witnesses did contribute to the establishment of civil liberties.