Posts by Believer

25

Observations: If man is merely a machine and the universe is merely a mechanism .

by Believer in

observations: if man is merely a machine and the universe is merely a mechanism .... if men were only machines, they would react more or less uniformly to a material universe.

individuality, much less personality, would be nonexistent.. materialism reduces man to a soulless automaton and constitutes him merely an arithmetical symbol finding a helpless place in the mathematical formula of an unromantic and mechanistic universe.

but whence comes all this vast universe of mathematics without a master mathematician?

Believer

Sorry but that's not how it works.

Says who? I don't think you're an authority on "how it works."

25

Observations: If man is merely a machine and the universe is merely a mechanism .

by Believer in

observations: if man is merely a machine and the universe is merely a mechanism .... if men were only machines, they would react more or less uniformly to a material universe.

individuality, much less personality, would be nonexistent.. materialism reduces man to a soulless automaton and constitutes him merely an arithmetical symbol finding a helpless place in the mathematical formula of an unromantic and mechanistic universe.

but whence comes all this vast universe of mathematics without a master mathematician?

Believer

How do you know a machine cannot do those things?

Well, you can prove the concept wrong by identifying a machine that can do all those things. And make sure it’s a computer that spontaneously created itself. Otherwise such a computer would add to the argument that there has to be an intelligent Creator.

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Observations: If man is merely a machine and the universe is merely a mechanism .

by Believer in

observations: if man is merely a machine and the universe is merely a mechanism .... if men were only machines, they would react more or less uniformly to a material universe.

individuality, much less personality, would be nonexistent.. materialism reduces man to a soulless automaton and constitutes him merely an arithmetical symbol finding a helpless place in the mathematical formula of an unromantic and mechanistic universe.

but whence comes all this vast universe of mathematics without a master mathematician?

Believer

Actually having read the OP I'm unmarking. Answered this sort of facile stuff so many times already it's tedious

But of course!

25

Observations: If man is merely a machine and the universe is merely a mechanism .

by Believer in

observations: if man is merely a machine and the universe is merely a mechanism .... if men were only machines, they would react more or less uniformly to a material universe.

individuality, much less personality, would be nonexistent.. materialism reduces man to a soulless automaton and constitutes him merely an arithmetical symbol finding a helpless place in the mathematical formula of an unromantic and mechanistic universe.

but whence comes all this vast universe of mathematics without a master mathematician?

Believer

All throughout human history there never has been any viably proven existence of spiritualism other than hearsay, drawn out of ignorance of the world in which we live.

The observations are simply addressing the unreasonableness of excluding spiritualism.

25

Observations: If man is merely a machine and the universe is merely a mechanism .

by Believer in

observations: if man is merely a machine and the universe is merely a mechanism .... if men were only machines, they would react more or less uniformly to a material universe.

individuality, much less personality, would be nonexistent.. materialism reduces man to a soulless automaton and constitutes him merely an arithmetical symbol finding a helpless place in the mathematical formula of an unromantic and mechanistic universe.

but whence comes all this vast universe of mathematics without a master mathematician?

Believer

Regarding machines, there is simple "soulless" machines and there are extremely complicated machines that are so sophisticated that even come with a soul. It's just a matter of semantics.

If there ever will be such a computer, it won’t spontaneously create itself. It will be the product of a super intelligent computer programmer.

25

Observations: If man is merely a machine and the universe is merely a mechanism .

by Believer in

observations: if man is merely a machine and the universe is merely a mechanism .... if men were only machines, they would react more or less uniformly to a material universe.

individuality, much less personality, would be nonexistent.. materialism reduces man to a soulless automaton and constitutes him merely an arithmetical symbol finding a helpless place in the mathematical formula of an unromantic and mechanistic universe.

but whence comes all this vast universe of mathematics without a master mathematician?

Believer

Observations: If man is merely a machine and the universe is merely a mechanism ...

If men were only machines, they would react more or less uniformly to a material universe. Individuality, much less personality, would be nonexistent.

Materialism reduces man to a soulless automaton and constitutes him merely an arithmetical symbol finding a helpless place in the mathematical formula of an unromantic and mechanistic universe. But whence comes all this vast universe of mathematics without a Master Mathematician?

If the universe were merely a mechanism and mind were unapart from matter, we would never have two differing interpretations of any observed phenomenon. The concepts of truth, beauty, and goodness are not inherent in either physics or chemistry. A machine cannot know, much less know truth, hunger for righteousness, and cherish goodness.

If man is only a machine, by what technique does this man come to believe or claim to know that he is only a machine? The experience of self-conscious evaluation of one’s self is never an attribute of a mere machine. A self-conscious and avowed mechanist is the best possible answer to mechanism. If materialism were a fact, there could be no self-conscious mechanist.

If the universe were truly what the materialist regards it to be, man as a human machine would then be devoid of all conscious recognition of that very fact. Without the consciousness of the concept of values within the spirit-born mind, the fact of universe materialism and the mechanistic phenomena of universe operation would be wholly unrecognized by man. One machine cannot be conscious of the nature or value of another machine.

If the universe were only material and man only a machine, there would be no science to embolden the scientist to postulate this mechanization of the universe. Machines cannot measure, classify, nor evaluate themselves. Such a scientific piece of work could be executed only by some entity of supermachine status.

If this were only a material universe, material man would never be able to arrive at the concept of the mechanistic character of such an exclusively material existence. This very mechanistic concept of the universe is in itself a nonmaterial phenomenon of mind, and all mind is of nonmaterial origin, no matter how thoroughly it may appear to be materially conditioned and mechanistically controlled.

If this were merely a material universe and man only a machine, such a man would be wholly unable to recognize himself as such a machine, and likewise would such a machine-man be wholly unconscious of the fact of the existence of such a material universe. The materialistic dismay and despair of a mechanistic science has failed to recognize the fact of the spirit-indwelt mind of the scientist whose very supermaterial insight formulates these mistaken and self-contradictory concepts of a materialistic universe.

The very claim of materialism implies a supermaterial consciousness of the mind which presumes to assert such dogmas. A mechanism might deteriorate, but it could never progress. Machines do not think, create, dream, aspire, idealize, hunger for truth, or thirst for righteousness. They do not motivate their lives with the passion to serve other machines and to choose as their goal of eternal progression the sublime task of finding God and striving to be like him. Machines are never intellectual, emotional, aesthetic, ethical, moral, or spiritual.

How foolish to presume that an automaton could conceive a philosophy of automatism, and how ridiculous that it should presume to form such a concept of other and fellow automatons!

The partially evolved mental mechanism of mortal man is not overendowed with consistency and wisdom. Man’s conceit often outruns his reason and eludes his logic.

Taken from Materialism and The Vulneribility of Materialism.

63

Video: Dear Believer, Why Do You Believe?

by Believer in

i was asked to view the video “dear believer, why do you believe?” i said i would and i would publish my comments about it.

so here are my comments.

after my post, i hope other believers will post theirs comments about it.

Believer

DJS and Cofty, you have some kind of persecution fixation that turns any expression by a believer OF HIS OWN BELIEFS into a personal attack on you. It is clear that no amount of reason will penetrate your fixation. So, I will leave you to your own devices.

63

Video: Dear Believer, Why Do You Believe?

by Believer in

i was asked to view the video “dear believer, why do you believe?” i said i would and i would publish my comments about it.

so here are my comments.

after my post, i hope other believers will post theirs comments about it.

Believer

TimeBandit,

What you are missing is that you nonbelivers are not the only victims here. All of us here (practically all of us) are ex-JWs. We are ALL recovering from the spiritual abuse of the WT. Some of us have found some peace by rejecting all religion and God along with it. Others of us have found healing by drawing closer to God. Why can’t those who are healing through faith have a voice here? Why must all ex-JWs take the path you have taken? That’s unreasonable, selfish, whinny, and weak.

If this is a forum supporting those recovering from WT abuse, why can’t we all be supportive of one another, no matter the method of recovery? And why can’t believers share their healing faith with one another without having to convince nonbelievers that their method is valid? Why can’t nonbelievers accept that there may be other, valuable and successful ways of recovering from our common affliction?

The freedom of nonbelievers is no more important and more valid than the freedom of believers. This is a shared space. Learn to share. Learn to find your place. If hearing about religious or faith based topics damages you so much, SAVE YOURSELF!! STOP READING RELIGIOUS AND FAITH BASED THREADS. I tried to make this easy for your by the title of the thread and the words in the OP. This thread is not for you!

It seems you just want to pick a fight. We are not your enemy. We are your brothers and your comrades. Fellow survivors. Have a little compassion. Stop being so needy for attention. Direct your frustration at the WT, no us.

63

Video: Dear Believer, Why Do You Believe?

by Believer in

i was asked to view the video “dear believer, why do you believe?” i said i would and i would publish my comments about it.

so here are my comments.

after my post, i hope other believers will post theirs comments about it.

Believer

DJS wrote:

Believer,
Didn't you say a couple of days ago you would never post again on this site or even view it??

Nope. Never said that.

You were asked to view a video? Really? By whom? The Pope? Billy Graham? Believer?

I was asked by StartingOver.

So let me get this straight. You are now separating religion from god. I see. In your last OP, where you assigned all us atheists to Gehenna (is that the metaphorical Gehenna meaning death or the hot place? I want to dress appropriately), you also stated that there was a 'true faith.'

Yes, I am able to separate religion from God and, yes I do believe there is a difference between blind faith and true faith. But as for the Gehenna comments, that wasn’t me. You’ve got me confused with someone else.

Now the important question. Are those who believe in god in your true faith? Or is it just the xtian god and his baby boy that gets identified as the true faith? What about the myriads of gods in Hinduism, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva? Islam's god Allah? Moksha of Jainism?

You’re confusing faith with religion.

Or is the true faith only reserved for Believer and its followers? Do the Hindus, Jains, Buddhists, etc. also get thrown into Gehenna along with us atheists? We are talking about several billion people, so your response is meaningful. We got to alert a whole lot of people if you don't approve of their religion or their god.

Again, the Gehenna comment was not from me.

63

Video: Dear Believer, Why Do You Believe?

by Believer in

i was asked to view the video “dear believer, why do you believe?” i said i would and i would publish my comments about it.

so here are my comments.

after my post, i hope other believers will post theirs comments about it.

Believer

I notice that when a thread is started that is directed to believers, it is usually co-opted by atheists. I’d like to stay on point. Read the OP and you will see what I am interested in responding to. If you want to start a thread espousing your robot philosophy, do it. And maybe I’ll be interested in responding.