Posts by pomegranate

18

Jesus Died For........

by bjc2012 in

it is a well-accepted fact that jesus as an israelite was under the mosiac law covenant.

as he himself said at matthew 5:17: do not think i came to destroy the law or the prophets.

i came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.

pomegranate

Francoise,

You are correct. You are not wrong. In your own mind.

How's it feel to be "like God?"

love
pom

18

Jesus Died For........

by bjc2012 in

it is a well-accepted fact that jesus as an israelite was under the mosiac law covenant.

as he himself said at matthew 5:17: do not think i came to destroy the law or the prophets.

i came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.

Poorly written Scripture

by stephenw20 in

when i was reading this passage about six months ago, i had a pair of elders stop by, as my wife, was affraid for my spiritual welfare.. this passage came up as one i had questions about.. .

mat 27:50-54 jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

and, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; .

pomegranate

Judg 9:23
23 God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the citizens of Shechem, who acted treacherously against Abimelech.

The above I would understand the "evil spirit" to be a bad aura or tension that was permitted between Abimelech and the people of Shechem. That's pretty easy to see, I think.

1 Sam 16:13-14
13 So Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the presence of his brothers, and from that day on the Spirit of the LORD came upon David in power. Samuel then went to Ramah.

14 Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.

The evil spirit from the LORD I'm sure has something to do with David's being anointed in the verse before. Notice the spirit of the LORD came upon David, the following verse has the LORD's spirit departing from Saul. When the spirit of God leaves someone after being "anointed" with it for some time, there must be a horrible void within the person, knowing the spirit of God has been removed. What's left? Whatever spirit is left within the man. Hate. Jealousy. Anger...

1 Sam 16:15-16
15 Saul's attendants said to him, "See, an evil spirit from God is tormenting you. 16 Let our lord command his servants here to search for someone who can play the harp. He will play when the evil spirit from God comes upon you, and you will feel better."

The text above has Saul's attendants probably seeing him moping around all pissy faced and angry because of God's spirit being removed. What do the attendants suggest to show that the evil spirit could be a spirit of anger and agitation? Music. Soothing music. That helps add to the understanding that the evil spirit was not an evil being from God, but rather the corrupt human spirit within Saul showing itself.

1 Sam 16:23
23 Whenever the spirit from God came upon Saul, David would take his harp and play. Then relief would come to Saul; he would feel better,
and the evil spirit would leave him.

Everytime Saul gets in a raunchy mood, David plays soothing music. The spirit is from God in that God has removed his holy spirit from Saul and is permitting his corrupt imperfect spirit to flourish and reveal itself.

1 Sam 18:10-13
10 The very next day, in fact, a tormenting spirit from God overwhelmed Saul, and he began to rave like a madman. David began to soothe him by playing the harp, as he did whenever this happened. But Saul, who was fiddling with his spear, 11 suddenly hurled it at David, intending to pin him to the wall. But David jumped aside and escaped. This happened another time, too, for Saul was afraid of him and jealous because the Lord had left him and was now with David.

I think here in this text, Saul now knows where the spirit of God has gone. It's on David. He's stark raving mad. Jealous. He whips the spear at David in a fit of jealous rage. If God applies His spirit to one, and removes it from another, both results are "from" God. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

1 Sam 19:9
9 But an evil spirit from the LORD came upon Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the harp,

And again the same thing. If you look at a number of translations and also go to a Hebrew lexicon, you will see the word for "evil" can also be translated as "distressing" or "tormenting"...

The conclusion I come to in my own understanding is: God removed His spirit from Saul, it was applied to David. The results are an angry, jealous, tormented Saul who's "evil spirit" from God was really God removing his holy spirit, and permitting Saul's imperfect corrupt human traits to flare up and exibit themselves in rage towards God's newly anointed, King David.

love
pomegranate

18

Jesus Died For........

by bjc2012 in

it is a well-accepted fact that jesus as an israelite was under the mosiac law covenant.

as he himself said at matthew 5:17: do not think i came to destroy the law or the prophets.

i came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.

pomegranate

Why was a ‘fulfillment’ necessary?

My understanding is twofold:

1 John 3:5-6, "But you know that he appeared [Christ] so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin."

The first reason was to release man from the Law which condemns. But the Law did not go away. It was removed as a yoke of burden from man, and was placed as a noose of death around Satan's neck. That same Law that we have been released from, is now binding on Satan.

1 John 3:8, "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work."

How does the death of Christ "destroy the devil's work?" Most understand the first part by buying back of what Adam lost, balancing the scales of justice of perfect man [Christ] for imperfect man [Adam]. But how does Jesus death rectify a scale of justice with regard to Satan?

I have my own idea, I would be curious to hear others.

20

How many Saviors

by mensa163 in

hopefully a learned jw can answer this for me.. i have many jw friends & attended a couple of meetings.. one friend dropped by every month or so handing out pamphlets etc.

and we enjoyed the visits.

one saturday i asked him who was savior and he said jesus.

pomegranate

John 16:15, "All that belongs to the Father is mine."

Hmm. Godship and the "name?" Would they be included in ALL?

John 17:10 "All I have is yours, and all you have is mine."

Hmm. Would that include godship and the "name?" In the flesh, does a son carry the same name as his father? Yes.

John 17:21-23, "...that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23 I in them and you in me."

Seems like we're going in. Into the Divine Spiritual Being. One big happy unified God family body...I can't wait.

love
pom

20

How many Saviors

by mensa163 in

hopefully a learned jw can answer this for me.. i have many jw friends & attended a couple of meetings.. one friend dropped by every month or so handing out pamphlets etc.

and we enjoyed the visits.

one saturday i asked him who was savior and he said jesus.

pomegranate

Shhhhhhh....people might start thinking Jesus is Yehweh.

Interesting thing. Almost 7000 times Yehweh is used in the OT. With over 5000 manuscripts available of the NT, it's not in it once, excepting the abbreviated "Alleluiah"

Yehweh

Jesus

My new name. (See Rev.)

pom

PS. The Father committed ALL things to the Son. Could the Bible really mean all? Like every single thing including "the name?"

14

The nature of God

by cosmicmystic in

i submit, for your consideration that the lord of love and forgiveness, the lord of the whole universe, taught by jesus was not the same as the god of the ancient hebrews who they call "jehovah".

indeed, historically, the ancient "people of jehovah" were the worst enemies of both jesus and the early christians.

in the hebrew scriptures, the god called jehovah is a wargod and local god, credited with every kind of atrocitiy and brutality.

pomegranate

Francoise,

I wonder how the God of love will deal with Satan?

Or, let me guess, there's no such thing, he's only make believe, right?

How do you both understand Jesus in the Gospels and in the last book? He's bluffing? His words are pretty pointed. Didn't He condemned the Jewish leaders to their faces? Love and corruption don't mix, so one has to go. Also, both of your answers are nice if you ignore the Bible which both of you have done. If you choose to worship a god outside of the Bible, worship that god for yourselves. It's your choice. I can't condemn you. Not my job.

Call me a literalist, fundamentalist what have you. The message is clear from Gen to Rev, bad and corruption will be destroyed. I choose to side with the God of the Bible, who has never changed.

Are you guys afraid of something? That God is going to destroy someone that doesn't deserve it? Do you guys feel God's scales of justice aren't as honest as yours? You feel you know God better than Himself? So, a God of Love has no capacity to destroy that which gets in the way of that godly quality, Love? What's God to do with Satan? Love him to death?

Make pretend your God. What do you do to deal with a habitual child molestor? Love him like yourself? Invite him to your house for a meal with the wife and kids? How about the guy that blew up the Mara Building? You be the judge. Since you guys are able to judge God as incapable to destroy bad, when a kidknapper comes and takes your child and mutilates the body into tiny pieces, I know you'll show the utmost love and kindness to him. Invite him over for Christmas and buy him some lovely gifts.

A God who does nothing about bad, is not God at all. He's a powerless wimp.

love
pom

14

The nature of God

by cosmicmystic in

i submit, for your consideration that the lord of love and forgiveness, the lord of the whole universe, taught by jesus was not the same as the god of the ancient hebrews who they call "jehovah".

indeed, historically, the ancient "people of jehovah" were the worst enemies of both jesus and the early christians.

in the hebrew scriptures, the god called jehovah is a wargod and local god, credited with every kind of atrocitiy and brutality.

pomegranate

Again I ask;

Could you show me a text in the Bible OT, where God was unjustified in eliminating bad?

----------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the resurrected Christ speaking to those who remain corrupt, He sounds distinctly like Yehweh:

Rev 2:5 Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. "If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place".

No lamp, no light, no life. Ever heard the expression "punch your lights out?" Bad , evil and corruption will not be tolerated.

Rev 2:16
16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev 2:22-23
22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead.

Rev 2:27
27'He will rule them with an iron scepter;
he will dash them to pieces like pottery-
just as I have received authority from my Father.

Wrath? Bad will be destroyed to make way for ALL good.

Rev 6:16-17
16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"

Many ancient peoples observing nature honestly did the best they could to formulate their ideas of God.

Were you there? If not, where do you get your facts?

You do not "destroy evil" by killing human beings.

Your right I don't. God will start at the bottom and work his way up to the top. He wants the generals head nailed. See Genesis chapter 3.

Many of them were honest, good, kind, sweet and loving human beings.

Where do you get your facts?

My God is the God of Jesus. As He is the God of Love and forgiveness, His only function and great delight is to love his children. So my God would never "whack people up side the head".

That would be true if you reason that the Bible is a lie. Read Revelation. Read the OT. Read Christ's own words.

Luke 17:26-29
26 "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 "It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

The line that divides good from bad will be as precise as the line that was drawn when Christ walked the earth. Some loved him and some hated him. The line is being drawn.

You can ignore the OT if you want. You can ignore Jesus own words if you want. You can ignore Revelation if you want. You can say none of it will happen if you want.

I won't.

44

depression and why JW's don't reconize it

by nogs in

well as you know unless you are an elders son or daughter generally jw's don't lift a finger to help all those ones feeling downtrodden and lonely.

i felt like this from july 1994 to march 2000. i prayed to jehovah constantly for help to ease the loneliness, i begged the elders and even others.

for a long time the only ones who would talk to me where the elderly ones(who i miss now since i left) i cried every night and felt after five years of being at meetings and feeling invisable (even though i was an auxillary pioneer) i decided that my life was worth fighting for.

pomegranate

You are weird.

If the above post is a happy person... yikes!

14

The nature of God

by cosmicmystic in

i submit, for your consideration that the lord of love and forgiveness, the lord of the whole universe, taught by jesus was not the same as the god of the ancient hebrews who they call "jehovah".

indeed, historically, the ancient "people of jehovah" were the worst enemies of both jesus and the early christians.

in the hebrew scriptures, the god called jehovah is a wargod and local god, credited with every kind of atrocitiy and brutality.

pomegranate

Again I ask;

Could you show me a text in the Bible OT, where God was unjustified in eliminating bad?

Now, which "peaceful" people could you be talking about? Amalakites, Edomites, Midianites, Moabites, Canaanites, Amorites???

One blairing and justifiable fact with every single nation that was totally destroyed by God is this, they worshipped Satan. Here's their peaceful cry;

"Please let us at peace and worship Satan and all the other false gods we can create. We mean you no harm. Let us worship the god of corruption to the best of our abilities. Let us prostitute our physical bodies with immorality of all sorts. Let us worship the creation rather than the Creator. Let us have our idols of man and womans sex organs, let us worship the sun and moon and stars. We even like to burn our young children in the fires of a cool god named Molech. Please, we are a peaceful people. Matter of fact, come in join us in this worship of FREE WILL. Worship whatever way you want and who ever you want. It's way cool."

To God's pure people He says this:

Deut 4:16-20
16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, 17 or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, 18 or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. 19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars--all the heavenly array--do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. 20 But as for you, the LORD took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are.

Deut 4:25-26
25 After you have had children and grandchildren and have lived in the land a long time--if you then become corrupt and make any kind of idol, doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God and provoking him to anger, 26 I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you this day that you will quickly perish from the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess. You will not live there long but will certainly be destroyed.

If God could JUSTIFIABLY whack His own people up side the head for all the stuff above, you don't think He has the right to whack people up side the head for the very same stuff above that aren't His chosen people? Give me a break.

PS. Show me the peaceful Satan worshippers in the Bible that God whacked with the big stick. I think I missed that part.

peace.