Posts by pomegranate

31

Interpretation of Scripture

by chacha in

can the bible be interpreted correctly only by the watchtower?.

do you believe that the bible was written to all people?

pomegranate

Is the Son not revealed to all through the Holy Scriptures

To all???? In light of the following, you tell me. :)

John 5:39-40
39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Matt 11:25
25 At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Luke 10:21
21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Matt 11:27
no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Rom 9:16-17
16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

pom

25

Wisdom Personified

by ozziepost in

the next time a householder says to you: everyone has his own interpretation of the bible, how will you respond?

perhaps you will use the suggestion from the reasoning book (page 65) you might reply: and obviously not all of them are right.

you might add: twisting the scriptures to fit our own ideas can result in lasting harm .

pomegranate

I have very pleasant memories of eating pomegranates.

Aren't they the greatest? :)

25

Wisdom Personified

by ozziepost in

the next time a householder says to you: everyone has his own interpretation of the bible, how will you respond?

perhaps you will use the suggestion from the reasoning book (page 65) you might reply: and obviously not all of them are right.

you might add: twisting the scriptures to fit our own ideas can result in lasting harm .

pomegranate

"But to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, he is Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." -- 1 Corinthians 1:24, Barclay.

The topic of context should always decide what is meant by a single verse. Taking that one verse and saying that it proves Christ is wisdom is taking the verse out of the context, a very common practice.

The context of the above is the Apostle Paul counseling the Corinthian congregation against divisions and the contrasts between worldly wisdom and the spiritual wisdom. Worldly wisdom is shown as fleeting and foolishness, while faith in Christ is wisdom and power for the ones who believe in Him,especially in a congregation that was being divided along the lines of Jew and Greek.
The wisdom and power of God is the unifying belief in Christ.

Why would Paul in a context of counseling against divisions in the early congregation, all of a sudden change his context to proving Christ is wisdom? He doesn't. His reason for writing was to stop divisions.

So it is not Christ that is being called the power of God and the wisdom of God here, but rather the Jew and the Greek (them which are called) who fully accept Christ because it would give them the Christ like wisdom and power of God to keep a congregation from being divided.

Mind you, Christ for a certainty has all the attributes of God ie Love, Wisdom, Power and Justice, but that is not what is being discussed here. It's how to keep the Corinthian congregation intact
under the advent of divisions. Drop the worldly wisdom, accept the spiritual wisdom (belief in Christ). Become empowered and wise through belief in Christ. That is power. That is wisdom. Then, you'll have a nice tight undivided congregation.

JW's teach that it while it was certainly Jehovah's angel who spoke to Moses at the burning bush, and Jehovah's angel who visited Abraham and spoke to Gideon as well, they do NOT teach that these angels were Jesus in his pre-human spirit existence because that would tend to make one think that Jesus=Yahweh because the humans equated the messenger with Yahweh Himself.

I have a problem with the above understanding. The Bible says it was YHWH who talked to Moses NOT an angel...

Ex 3:2-4
2 There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. 3 So Moses thought, "I will go over and see this strange sight--why the bush does not burn up."
4 When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, "Moses! Moses!"

Moses saw the angel, but heard YHWH. What is so hard to understand about that?

Does anybody else here have a problem with understanding that both an angel and the voice of YHWH came from the bush? In other words, as verse two says, the angel of the LORD that Moses SAW, was the one doing the burning bush visual thing, and YHWH's voice came from within the bush, doing the talking thing. Example:

If Satan could use a serpent to talk through to Eve, and we know the serpent wasn't Satan, but it WAS Satan talking, do you think God in His power could have used a burning bush angel as the visual to talk to Moses through, as the same type of tool Satan used.

By human terms: Ventriloquism.

pomegranate

31

Interpretation of Scripture

by chacha in

can the bible be interpreted correctly only by the watchtower?.

do you believe that the bible was written to all people?

pomegranate

Do you mean through divine revelation or through study of the Bible?

Regarding understanding? Both of the above.

Matt 11:27
no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

So, yes, understanding can be divinely revealed by the ones whom the Son chooses to give revelation.

I would like to point out that to interpret any written work, you have to interpret the language in which the work was written.

I would agree that one should analyze the way the Bible has been "translated." Things positively get lost in translation. I have found that to be especially true with the Hebrew.

That is why I have made it a point to study both the Hebrew and Greek in my quest for understanding. It is very revealing.

pomegranate

31

Interpretation of Scripture

by chacha in

can the bible be interpreted correctly only by the watchtower?.

do you believe that the bible was written to all people?

pomegranate

Personally, I believe interpretation comes directly frpm God and is 100% correct all the time.

Man has understanding as he reads and trys to comprehend the meaning of scripture. Interpretation will never be adjusted, but understanding can and does need to be adjusted as more and more comprehension is acquired.

I do believe the Bible was written for all people.

My understanding, which can and does get adjusted. :)

pomegranate

20

Tree of Life---Ruby slippers?

by crossroads in

what was the tree of life doing in the garden?.

i have only one thought that works for me on this.. has anybody else ever wondered?

pomegranate

>>>(Information is from the book Hebrew Mythology" by S. H. Hooke.)

He was there?

12

Spot the difference

by dmouse in

answer these questions by consulting the scriptures in the holy inspired bible:.

when did god make man and woman?

genesis 1:26,27,31 and genesis 2:4-7, 21-22. how many animals went into the ark?

pomegranate

OK. Let's do this one.

How many animals went into the ark?
Genesis 6:20 and Genesis 7:2

Gen 6:20
20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive.

Gen 7:2,3
2 Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.

Two of every kind is NOT talking about a number in the sense of HOW MANY...it is in the sense of the ability to procreate the individual species, male and female. Proof? Read the verse before the verse dmouse uses to support his "how many went on the ark" arguement:

Gen 6:19
two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you

The two's are the males and the females. Not the "how many's" that went on the ark.

There were obviously animals that were designated by God to be symbolically "clean." Seven pairs of these were to be taken of the ones God called "clean." (As well as the birds)

2 (male/female) 7 (Holy/Clean)

2 (Father/Son) 7 (Holy/Clean)

Please note the chapter and verse where the 2 of 7/7 of 2 is mentioned:

Gen 7:2
2 Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate,

Coincidence? Nope. Did you know there were 27 books in the NT? Coincidence? Nope.

Gen 1:27
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

27...Image/Image....Male/Female.

Two is Seven. Seven symbolizes Holy.

Gen 2:3
And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Honestly pom, I read your words and I feel a newfound apreciation for Karl Marx. I get a really opiated sense from your words. Am I right? If so, what is it like?

Funny how people always stoop to lobbing insults.

12

Spot the difference

by dmouse in

answer these questions by consulting the scriptures in the holy inspired bible:.

when did god make man and woman?

genesis 1:26,27,31 and genesis 2:4-7, 21-22. how many animals went into the ark?

pomegranate

dmouse,

>>>My point was that we simply cannot assume that scripture can give us the definitive answer about anything<<<

I disagree. Why do you keep blanketing me (we/us) in with your feelings? It gives me the answers I need. The answer I am seeking of which I have derived at through research, mutual bantering between others who appreciate the book and maybe spiritual means, is indeed an answer for me. Maybe not you.

>>> the bible can and has been used to support diametrically opposed positions.<<<

I think I can safely say that when the Bible is used for that purpose, both sides in opposition are using the book wrong. Because people use the book for opposing purposes of which both can fall short, does that make the people wrong or the book wrong? There again, that's the answer for me. It may not be what satisfies you.

>>>We can't use it to 'prove' anything.<<<

Each person can use it on their own proving ground. True believers who use the book aright (to me) will say what they think is correct understanding, then listen and build as things are taken in. Not being afraid to change their understanding if the proof is logical, reasonable and scriptual. Nobody can condemn or justify till God does it in the end. Each one is responsible for learning as much as each persons intellect lets them...there are differing curves of understanding for each person. Everything about the INDIVIDUAL human, pro and con is factored in by God. I trust him in that regard.

>>>The very proliferation of different Christian religions with different beliefs, all basing their beliefs on the same bible, seems ample evidence for this.<<<

See, your astute observation can be looked at differently. The very proliferation of differing "Christian" religions using the same book seems ample evidence to me of a mass cover up. Bury it under so much dung. Somewhere at the bottom of the pile of religious garbage is God's gold. The easy way is to give up, the other way is to work at it.

Jimmer,

>>>Your own measuring line? Your own personal truth?

Fact: Hitler had his own measuring line.
Fact: David Koresh had his own personal truth.<<<

What does the above have to do with you? I'm talking about you not them, not me, not your mother. YOU. It seems to me you have a measuring line. You gave me two bad examples. So you know basic good from bad. Crank it up a notch...

>>Societies cannot survive without adhering to an objective "measuring line" outside of personal preferences.<<

You are right. It's called Law.

>>Truth is truth--no matter who examines it. If what is true for me is not true for you, then it isn't truth to begin with. It should rather be called preference.<<

I agree. But when God is behind it, you can be sure it will connect others of like understanding. That's God's preference. That's the preference I want. It's what I've asked for.

pom

12

Spot the difference

by dmouse in

answer these questions by consulting the scriptures in the holy inspired bible:.

when did god make man and woman?

genesis 1:26,27,31 and genesis 2:4-7, 21-22. how many animals went into the ark?

pomegranate

Jimmer,

>>And, what should be used as the measure of right and wrong?

Develope your own measuring line. Do something progressive.

>>>And, if I am to believe you, on what authority do you base your convictions on?

By all means DO NOT BELIEVE ME. I am in this "sharpening" game as much as everyone else. Believe in your own ability to sharpen your own tool. It does take work though. My "understanding" may give you "understanding" based on my digging and vice versa. My convictions are personally developed based on belief that there is a God and that the Bible is His. That's where I am now. From what I have learned post JW's, it's a real good place for me to be. For me anyway.

>>How do you know what you are saying is true?

My personal truth is built like a house. One brick at a time. My truth, like everyone elses is your own. It is how you build a relationship with God as you look for what is right and shed what is wrong. As you progress, you will find NOBODY can say "if you don't believe this, you are going to die!" Well, they CAN say it, but they have passed judgement and are in violation of Christ.

One brick at a time. The first place to start building is on the cornerstone. The foundation. What is your cornerstone?

dmouse,

Of one thing I am absolutely sure: That I am as clueless about what the bible means as everybody else.

Speak for yourself. I know exactly what the Bible means to me. That's all that matters on my end. What it means to you is your own business, right?

love,
pom

1

Genesis 1:1

by pomegranate in

gen 1:1, "in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth.

i would like to show you the definition for the hebrew word "shamayim" which is translated into english as the plural "heavens.

shamayim (shaw-mah'-yim); dual of an unused singular shameh (shaw-meh'); from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve): .

pomegranate

Consider the following:

Gen 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

I would like to show you the definition for the Hebrew word "shamayim" which is translated into English as the plural "heavens."

OT:8064
shamayim (shaw-mah'-yim); dual of an unused singular shameh (shaw-meh'); from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve):

Do you notice that the word is a Dual Hebrew word? Dual means two. That "dual/two" is the reason it is translated as plural "heavens" in the English. Please note the lexicon adding its own allusion as to what the dual may mean. I would like to present to you to weigh in your scales of logic and reason this premise: That the dual here is literal, that God created two heavens in the beginning. Then there were three heavens. This is what the heavens would be;

1. The created "Physical" heavens for the up coming luminaries (Space)

2. The created "Tartarus" heavens for Satan and his demons to be seperated into.

3. There was already a heaven in existence as the eternally existing dwelling place for God and angels.

Can three heavens be supported by other scripture? Yes, I believe it can.

2 Cor. 12:1-5 has the Apostle Paul relating an experience of a "man he knew" (himself in the third person) that was caught up somewhere very interesting;

2 Cor 12:2, "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know-God knows."

Paul is talking about himself in the third person at the point of his conversion...and he went to the "third heaven."

I think there's a slight problem translating a dual Hebrew word as a plural English word, don't you? If I was translating the Bible, I would have it be closer to the Hebrew, and have it read "In the beginning, God created two heavens and the earth."

Comments?

I do have more to support the above premise if anyone is interested.

love
pomegranate