Posts by pomegranate

39

Is the Flood Story True?

by JosephAlward in

those who have not yet relinquished their right to think for themselves should be virtually certain that the story of noah and the ark is a fable.

those who believe the bible's stories are literally true find it almost impossible to address with a straight face the problems presented below.. then the flood came which destroyed every living thing which was not in the ark: "and every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

" (genesis 7:23).

pomegranate

>>Pom,
My point about the time period is that they would have to have food stored for 330 days.<<

Tell me how I'm supposed to get THAT from this remark:

>>>Pomagranite,

Time perion quoted by you and another person is incorrect. According to the Genesis account, they were in the ark for about 11 months.<<

By the way, FOOD wasn't even a topic being discussed in this thread. I believe it was water.

>>Since you are unwilling to make reasonable estimates about the questions I asked, then you can leave it to a whole host of miracles use by God to make it happen.<<

Where would my estimates leave you?

>>In short, you should just say that you believe it because it says so, and not bother to even post here.<<

Ahh, yeah, I won't bother posting here because you tell me too?

Me no tink so.

39

Is the Flood Story True?

by JosephAlward in

those who have not yet relinquished their right to think for themselves should be virtually certain that the story of noah and the ark is a fable.

those who believe the bible's stories are literally true find it almost impossible to address with a straight face the problems presented below.. then the flood came which destroyed every living thing which was not in the ark: "and every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

" (genesis 7:23).

pomegranate

What the heck??? Man some people!!!

20 TWO [MALE AND FEMALE] of every kind of bird,[Eagles, Crows, Sparrow etc etc.]

You say here that "two" equals two individuals.

Did you forget all the KINDS?? Two equals Male and Female. A PAIR. Kind equals an undetermined amount. Get it?

>>>7:3 and also SEVEN of every kind of bird, male and female,

Seven more pair of da birdies. Pairs are the male and the female.

Now you say "seven" equals 7 "pairs," not 7 individuals.

How can you say this?<<

You're just pulling my leg right?

Here watch this, I'm Noah getting seven more male and female pairs of Eagles:

Eagles:
1. Male and Female
2. Male and Female
3. Male and Female
4. Male and Female
5. Male and Female
6. Male and Female
7. Male and Female

This one was from before:
8. Male and Female

Get some sleep.

39

Is the Flood Story True?

by JosephAlward in

those who have not yet relinquished their right to think for themselves should be virtually certain that the story of noah and the ark is a fable.

those who believe the bible's stories are literally true find it almost impossible to address with a straight face the problems presented below.. then the flood came which destroyed every living thing which was not in the ark: "and every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

" (genesis 7:23).

pomegranate

>>Time perion quoted by you and another person is incorrect. According to the Genesis account, they were in the ark for about 11 months.<<

Actually I have my dates correct. I never said WHEN they left the ark if you re-read the thread. I said how long before the flood waters subsided. Which was after 150 days.

Gen 7:11
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth,

Gen 8:4
4 and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat.

>>I have some questions. How many species each of birds, mamaals, marcupials, insects, and reptiles went onto the ark.<<

Don't know. Bible doesn't say.

>>How much food do you figure was reqired for all these animals to last for about 330 days?<<

Don't know. Bible doesn't say.

>>How long would it take to gather all this food with primative farm tools?<<

Don't know. Bible doesn't say.

>>How long would take to cut and trim the wood for the ark using hand tools?<<

Don't know. Bible doesn't say.

>>Were all animals vegetarians before the flood as the Bible indicates?<<

Don't know. Bible doesn't say.

>>After the flood, how did marcupials common to Australia get there? Did they swim there?<<

Don't know. Bible doesn't say.

But I do know the Bible says this about another food and water issue:

Ex 34:28
28 Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water.

No water or food for 40 days??? Impossible!!!

Jesus Christ, there goes God again, breaking His own laws of physics. I think you guys need to straighten him out huh?

39

Is the Flood Story True?

by JosephAlward in

those who have not yet relinquished their right to think for themselves should be virtually certain that the story of noah and the ark is a fable.

those who believe the bible's stories are literally true find it almost impossible to address with a straight face the problems presented below.. then the flood came which destroyed every living thing which was not in the ark: "and every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

" (genesis 7:23).

pomegranate

>>>Alward: If you believe the birds in Genesis 7 should be added to the ones in Genesis 6, then to be logically consistent you have to treat the animals in Genesis 7 the same way. Thus, using your logic, Noah took 1+7+1=9 pairs of animals on the ark. Who else in the world, besides you, Pom, believes this?<<

What are you talking about?

6:19 You are to bring into the ark TWO of all living creatures, MALE AND FEMALE, to keep them alive with you. 20 TWO of every kind of bird,

One pair of da birdies. Pairs are the male and female.

7:3 and also SEVEN of every kind of bird, male and female,

Seven more pair of da birdies. Pairs are the male and the female.

1+7=8 You gots and extra pair. Where you be gettin that?

45

Is the Path to Salvation Clear?

by JosephAlward in

inerrantists believe that every word in the bible is literally true; to believe otherwise, they say, is to remove the foundation upon which one may have a certain understanding of how one may achieve salvation and reach the kingdom of heaven.

that makes perfect sense, on one level.

if one could indeed know that everything in the bible is true, then one would just have to turn to the part where the method of salvation is described, do what the bible says, and live forever.

pomegranate

>>If you can't do this, you should ask yourself whether the author had something else in mind besides mortal death when he spoke of the love or hate which awaited man.<<

This is what the author had in mind:

but NO MAN KNOWS whether love or hate awaits him.

Why should I go beyond what is plainly written. You are PLAINLY taking a sentence out of the paragraphical context and teaching it means something the context never mentions ot even hints at in the slightest...

The plain context leaves your point waning Joseph.

Give this one up.

45

Is the Path to Salvation Clear?

by JosephAlward in

inerrantists believe that every word in the bible is literally true; to believe otherwise, they say, is to remove the foundation upon which one may have a certain understanding of how one may achieve salvation and reach the kingdom of heaven.

that makes perfect sense, on one level.

if one could indeed know that everything in the bible is true, then one would just have to turn to the part where the method of salvation is described, do what the bible says, and live forever.

pomegranate

>>Everyone then, as now, knows that death is bad, so Pom's interpretation to be too far-fetched to be given serious consideration.<<

Sorry bud. Alot of the false religions around the early Israelites time were teaching all kinds of afterlife doctrines. Ecclessiastes was a book for the Israelites to find the truth inside a world full of all sorts of false religious doctrines that contradicted the truth. So, indeed, the picture is painted quite well for the truth seeker. The context still holds true and your interpretation leaves context in the gutter.

>>Furthurmore, the author makes it clear that the state of death is bad, for he says

"the dead...have no further reward" (Ecclesiastes 9:5)<<

Ahhh. Correct. Which is the same thing the context is saying in the text at hand. The Bible has a resounding truth huh Joseph? Consistently saying the same thing in two different passages. Thanks for pointing that out.

>>When the author also tells us that man does not know whether "love or hate" awaits him, he cannot be speaking of what awaits the body in the grave; he is speaking of the chance of an afterlife, and whether one finds love, or hate. No mention is made of salvation, but what else could this "love" represent?<<

Read the CONTEXT Joseph. Not just one piece of a sentence. Afterlife is NOT the topic of context. IT IS DEATH ALONE.

We done with this one yet??

39

Is the Flood Story True?

by JosephAlward in

those who have not yet relinquished their right to think for themselves should be virtually certain that the story of noah and the ark is a fable.

those who believe the bible's stories are literally true find it almost impossible to address with a straight face the problems presented below.. then the flood came which destroyed every living thing which was not in the ark: "and every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

" (genesis 7:23).

pomegranate

>>An apparently irreconcilable contradictions exists in the Genesis accounts of the number of birds Noah was supposed to take with him. In one place, it says two, in another place it says seven.<<

Apologists will attempt to argue that the author didn't bother to tell us that the "seven" birds were supposed to be "clean," and that Noah was ALSO supposed to take two "unclean" birds. If you see that happen in this forum, it will be just one more example of the extremes die-rather-than-admit-to-an-error fundamentalists will go to to defend the inerrancy of their Bible.<<<

The apologists are ABSOLUTELY wrong. All one has to do is add the first pair of all birdies that were gathered up firstly, then add the latter seven pairs of all birdies that were commanded he take into the ark after the ark was completed, then any one with half a brain (and simple addition 1+7=8) would know that Noah took 8 pairs of all birdkind with him on the Ark.

Doesn't that make more sense with what is written than apologists attempt at trying to add there own verses to scripture?

Sure it does.

39

Is the Flood Story True?

by JosephAlward in

those who have not yet relinquished their right to think for themselves should be virtually certain that the story of noah and the ark is a fable.

those who believe the bible's stories are literally true find it almost impossible to address with a straight face the problems presented below.. then the flood came which destroyed every living thing which was not in the ark: "and every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

" (genesis 7:23).

pomegranate

>>No way rain could provide enough.<<

You're entitled to your opinion.

>>And how could the waters subside unless it stopped raining?<<

Gen 7:24
24 The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.

Subtract 40 days of water a plenty falling from the sky. That makes 110 days needed of water storage. Less than four months. That's also presuming the water outside the ark was not drinkable. Sounds feasible to me.

That's also assuming God forgot the recipe on how to make more just in case they ran out.

39

Is the Flood Story True?

by JosephAlward in

those who have not yet relinquished their right to think for themselves should be virtually certain that the story of noah and the ark is a fable.

those who believe the bible's stories are literally true find it almost impossible to address with a straight face the problems presented below.. then the flood came which destroyed every living thing which was not in the ark: "and every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

" (genesis 7:23).

pomegranate

>>"What about drinking water?"<<

rain

39

Is the Flood Story True?

by JosephAlward in

those who have not yet relinquished their right to think for themselves should be virtually certain that the story of noah and the ark is a fable.

those who believe the bible's stories are literally true find it almost impossible to address with a straight face the problems presented below.. then the flood came which destroyed every living thing which was not in the ark: "and every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

" (genesis 7:23).

pomegranate

>>Now, it is hard enough to understand why the disappointed Lord could not have just waved his hand to make the necessary improvements in existing man instead of killing every human being on earth,<<

God destroys corruption, he does NOT repair it.

>>but nearly incomprehensible is the Lord's decision to drown the whole planet, destroying "every living substance." After all, the Lord spent the entire third day of creation making the grasses, herbs, and fruit bearing trees (Genesis 1:11-13), and the fifth day making animals (Genesis 1:20-23); why would his anger at man lead him throw all this other good work down the drain?<<

When the physical man became corrupted, the whole physical ball of wax became corrupted.

>>Couldn't the omniscient God think of a way to kill man without killing the grass and animals, too? The grass hadn't offended God, and the animals hadn't done anything wrong, had they?<<

No they hadn't. But, you have to remember, animals and plants were initially CREATED in a death cycle from the very beginning (Nitrogen cycle). They were NOT created with the potential of eternal life like mankind. They were created to eventually die. That's where fertilizer comes from ya know??? As far as the animals go, they were created for man to rule over and have dominion over. So, the man and his kingdom (animals) would certainly be a logically destruction. Also, there is no intellectual and conscious tie between plants and animals and God. That tie is between man and God alone.

>>God gave Noah seven days to get ready. How did Noah and his sons build such a huge ark in just seven days?<<

You've misunderstood the Bible. He had plenty of time. Show me where you feel God gave Noah only seven days to make the ark.

>>How did Noah cause the animals to come to the Ark?<<

That was obviously God's doing.

>>How did they know where it was, and when they had to be there?<<

How do birds know to fly south for the winter? Are you really serious here??? How does man program his computers? God programs his little computers the same way. He changed the program to fit the need.

>>How did the great white bears and penguins of the polar regions, the kangeroos of the southern hemisphere, and the snakes and gorillas of the tropical rain forests cross the vast oceans and land masses to the Mideast?<<

Guess that depends on how much time was involved eh? I believe we're talking years where you seem to think seven days.

>>Once the whales, porpoises, and dolphins got to the Ark, how did they travel up the gangplank?<<

Sorry Joseph, you don't read your Bible to carefully do you? Your aim is mockery. The Bible plainly states what kind of animals would die in the flood:

Gen 6:17
17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it.

Gen 7:22
22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died.

Fish DO NOT have the breath of life in them. they do NOT HAVE NOSTRILS. They have GILLS. They have the water of life that sustains them. They lived through it (the flood) in the own liquid domain.

Every one of your flood questions can be answered. I'm stopping here as any more of addressing this is a waste of time.

PS. Salt water (ocean) and fresh water (rivers) equals brackish water. Go to the Mississippi delta and see that ALL KINDS of fresh water fish and salt water creatures that can live just peachy on a "brackish" water environment. As a matter of fact, fish life is in an amzaing abundance there. It's huge.

Ahhhh. Bah bye.