Is the Path to Salvation Clear?

JosephAlward

Inerrantists believe that every word in the Bible is literally true; to believe otherwise, they say, is to remove the foundation upon which one may have a certain understanding of how one may achieve salvation and reach the kingdom of heaven. That makes perfect sense, on one level. If one could indeed know that everything in the Bible is true, then one would just have to turn to the part where the method of salvation is described, do what the Bible says, and live forever.

St. Augustine (354-430) was one of the founders of the Roman Catholic Church. He well understood that Christianity was like a house of cards; if the church dared to admit to even a single error in the Bible, who could say there wasn't an error on every page? The resurrection story might then be false and everyone's hopes are in vain. This is what he said:

"The most disastrous consequences must follow upon our believing that anything false is found in the sacred books....If you [even] once admit into such a high sanctuary of authority one false statement, there will not be left a single sentence of those books, which, if appearing to anyone difficult in practice or hard to believe, may not by the same fatal rule be explained away as a statement, in which intentionally, the author declared what was not true."--St. Augustine in Epistula, p. 28.

However, literalists seem to be blinding themselves to the very real possibility that the God didn't orchestrate the writing of ALL of the Bible; perhaps he authorized only part of it, and he wants believers to study the Bible and sort out the bad from the good, to earn their way into heaven, so to speak, by diligent study and thoughtful criticisms of what they read. Until they have cast aside the blasphemies, such as the story Samuel told about the Lord ordering the killing of suckling babes (1 Samuel 15:1-3), they will never have a chance of getting to heaven, perhaps. Perhaps they have overlooked what the Bible says about people needing to sort out the good from the bad, and discern for themselves what is right. The Bible tells us to test everything, and that would seem to include the Bible itself. Here are the relevant verses:

"Let us discern for ourselves what is right; let us learn together what is good." (Job 34:4)

"My son, preserve sound judgment and discernment, do not let them out of your sight "(Proverbs 3:21)

"Test everything. Hold on to the good." (Thessalonians 5:21)

"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away." (Matthew 13:47-48)

Perhaps this last verse was authored by God, who wanted readers to know that those people who blindly believe false or blasphemous words in the Bible will be cast away?

Aren't believers taking quite a gamble on their salvation by assuming that every word in the Bible is true? After all, nowhere in the Bible is to be found a statement from God about which books in the Bible were authorized by him, is there? The Bible wasn't dug up from the desert sands, dropped there by God; the contents of the Bible were voted on by fallible men. If there is a salvation to be gained, taking these men's word literally might cost one everlasting life.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

pomegranate

>>If there is a salvation to be gained, taking these men's word literally might cost one everlasting life.<<

Did God tell you that? Or is that from your "book."

JosephAlward

I'm going to violate my own rule here and respond with a short message, rather than a thoughtful rebuttal, since you've offered nothing to rebut.

The message is this: Unless you have something substantive to say, don't say anything. You waste the time of dozens of readers who will note that there's a new message on this thread, then go to the trouble to log on to read it, only to find an informationless, one-line sarcasm. Please be more considerate in the future. If you want to make sarcastic remarks, save them until you can bury them inside of more substantive comments.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

pomegranate

>>The message is this: Unless you have something substantive to say, don't say anything.<<

Your full post above is nothing but hot air. You have NOTHING to offer except negativity. I responded with all that was needed.

>>You waste the time of dozens of readers who will note that there's a new message on this thread, then go to the trouble to log on to read it, only to find an informationless, one-line sarcasm.<<

That's your negative opinion again. The fact is, you offer nothing positive. Where does that get you or anyone that listens to you?

>>Please be more considerate in the future.<<

Considerate? I must have struck a chord eh?

>>If you want to make sarcastic remarks, save them until you can bury them inside of more substantive comments.<<

I will post in whatever manner I see fit. If you don't like it...
respond accordingly. That way we can see the real Joseph in action.

ianao

pomegranate:

You are so *personal attack removed*.

You know that if Alward tried to present his material in a "positive light" you would attempt to paint him as an "evil angel of light" simply because you disagree with him.

You Trying to make yourself look like some kind of super-nice crusader of good by uttering "you offer nothing positive" is almost as funny as Ms. Cleo offering psychic readings to those who "call now".

pomegranate

>>You are so *personal attack removed*.<<

You're entitled to your OPINION. As is he, as is I.

>>You know that if Alward tried to present his material in a "positive light" you would attempt to paint him as an "evil angel of light" simply because you disagree with him.<<

What is at issue is truth. Not me. Why don't you try and attack what is at issue rather than your opinion on who's getting personal or not. You will be able to find a zillion faults with me my friend, I am the most of imperfections, believe me.

>>You Trying to make yourself look like some kind of super-nice crusader of good by uttering "you offer nothing positive" is almost as funny as Ms. Cleo offering psychic readings to those who "call now".<<

I'm not trying anything. I am successfully defending my beliefs. If you don't like it, move on. Or, do you think by your textual oppression you'll change me or my beliefs?

You're dreaming.

ianao

pomegranate:

Your entitled to your OPINION. As is he, as is I.

Heh...

What is at issue is truth. Not me. Why don't you try and attack what is at issue rather than your opinion on who's getting personal or not. You will be able to find a zillion faults with me my friend, I am the least of imperfection, believe me.

No, what's at issue (from my perspective) is YOU. Why don't YOU try attacking an issue rather than generalizing your belief system (read: holy binity) to fit whatever mood you happen to be in on a specific day. Oh whoops, I bet you can't do that, as it seems to be your only means of defense.

I'm not trying anything. I am successfully defending my beliefs. If you don't like it, move on. Or, do you think by your textual oppression you'll change me or my beliefs?

As you've said before yourself, I will post in the matter I see fit. If YOU don't like it, please feel free to ignore *my* posts.

BTW: I don't expect superstitious *personal attack*s such as yourself to change your core beliefs, but it is VERY interesting to watch your belief system evolve to fit whatever argument you are currently conducting. As I said before, I pitty you on the day someone reads a line of scripture to you that you've always skimmed and blows away your current belief system. All it takes is a different perspective, oh pious one.

You're dreaming.

No, if I were dreaming, we would be having coffee.

RR

To answer your questions, "is the path to salvation clear?" Sure is. "Believe in the Lord Jesus."

____________________________
Religion is man's attempt to reach God,
Jesus is God's attempt to reach man.

JosephAlward

RR answers: "To answer your questions, "is the path to salvation clear?" Sure is. "Believe in the Lord Jesus."
"
Alward responds:

Unfortunately for Christians, it’s not that simple, RR. The Bible gives conflicting advice about the path to salvation. In one place you’re told that faith is not enough, that you must give away all of your possessions: “l everything you have and give to the poor.” (Luke 18:22) Do you plan to do that, or have you done it already, RR?

In another place you’re told that in addition to faith, you must `Love your neighbor as yourself.' …. "Do this and you will live.” (Luke 10:25-28) By the way, this is Jesus talking, the same Jesus Pom thinks was and is the “Jesus YHWH” who ordered the slaying of the Amalekites and the murder of the suckling babes in 1 Samuel 15:3.

In yet another place, you’re told that besides faith, you must do good works, “What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds?” (James 2:14)

And, finally, it doesn’t matter whether you have faith or not, do good works or not, because your salvation, or its absence, was decided before you were born, so no matter WHAT you do, your fate--good or bad--was long ago sealed. “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will Lord Jesus Christ” (Ephesians 1:3-6)

Now, are you still so sure about how you might be saved?

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

RR

I'm sure, what about you?

____________________________
Religion is man's attempt to reach God,
Jesus is God's attempt to reach man.

Is the Path to Salvation Clear?

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