Posts by pomegranate

Not everyone will be given faith, nor everyone's eyes shall see.

Bittersweet it is.

Edited by - pomegranate on 10 August 2002 9:19:55

Surely, Jesus can MAKE HIMSELF subject.

Satan MADE HIMSELF Devil.

I MADE MYSELF type this.

Jesus MADE HIMSELF subject to Father.

Edited by - pomegranate on 10 August 2002 9:12:5

Here's what I believe and why:

Yes, I believe the Bible is quite clear in that HONOR, GLORY and PRAISE be given to Jesus. ALL of which (Honor, Glory and Praise) are the very COMPONENTS which make up "WORSHIP." Which would surely mean I CAN and DO pray and talk to Jesus EQUALLY as Father.

HONOR, GLORY and PRAISE to the Son - let's start with HONOR.

The Bible says:

John 5:23
23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

Some will say that worship and honor are two different things. That is not true. Honor is one part of worship, just as it can be seen that we HONOR Father in part of our worship to Him. Honor is surely part of our worship to Father, of which who will deny? So, showing Jesus this SAME HONOR, would be part of worship towards him.

Also regarding honor and the text above, if I were to implicitly follow that text as PURE TRUTH, something interesting happens:

If I HONOR FATHER as God and Creator, that means I have to HONOR the Son exactly the same way, as God and Creator.
(By the way, I do not belive in the trinity or arianism, I believe in TWO. Duality. Bi-Theism. Or, for humors sake, the TWINITY. )

Back to why I believe the way I do. OK, For EVERY RHYME or REASON I honor Father, I have to honor the Son. To me, that elevates the Son for worship and prayer. EQUAL HONOR is what Chist's own words at John 5:23 is showing. If Jesus is not "God" then why does he teach I GET EQUAL HONOR AS THE FATHER?

GLORY

Surely, we are to give GLORY to the Son. GLORY is another part of WORSHIP and IT IS given to the Son.

2 Peter 3:18
18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

There is also another point regarding GLORY and WHO gives the Son this glory.

John 8:54
My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. glorify (glr
tr.v.glorified,glorifying,glorifies

1. To give glory, honor, or high praise to; exalt.
2. To give glory to, especially through worship

PLEASE NOTE, in the glorify definition - GLORY, HONOR and PRAISE as well as WORSHIP are tied in TOGETHER. Guess what Father does to the Son as Jesus own words CLEARLY ascribe? Father GLORIFIES the Son, Father HONORS the Son, Father gives HIGH PRAISE to the Son, Father HIGHLY EXALTS the Son. Do you know that all those things that Father is doing to Son constitutes PURE UNADULTERATED WORSHIP OF THE SON???

Does the Father and Son get EQUAL GLORY?

JESUS:
2 Peter 3:17-18
18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

FATHER:Rev 1:6
God and Father-to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Father glorifies the Son. Son glorifies the Father. Father honors the Son. Son honors the Father. Father exalts the Son. Son exalts the Father. Father gives high praise to the Son. Son gives high praise to the Father. Father LOVES the Son. Son LOVES the Father. Father worships the Son. Son worships the Father. I believe this has been happening from eternity...

PRAISE

Rev 5:12
"Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!"

People the above emboldened/underlined is PURE WORSHIP. Does not the Father receive the SAME?

Rev 5:13"To him (Father) who sits on the throne and to the Lamb (Son)
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!" <<<THAT IS PURE WORSHIP FOR BOTH BEINGS<<<People the above emboldened/underlined is PURE WORSHIP, FOR BOTH FATHER AND SON.

So, Do I Worship and Pray to Jesus? Anybody want to give an educated guess?

One more thing:

Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry
and you be destroyed in your way,
for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

Kiss the Son? Sounds like worship to me.

Edited by - pomegranate on 10 August 2002 9:6:10

hiccup...

Edited by - pomegranate on 10 August 2002 9:0:9

My biggest problem with the Bible is, that although most religions condemn the Catholics as ungodly and straying from the Bible, they all use the very book compiled by the Catholics. The Bible was put together by the early Catholic Church and declared inspired.

First, they did not write it. Second, Is there something wrong with God FORCING the Catholics to compile the canon? IF He eternally turned Saul (Bad) into Paul (Good), I think using the Catholics (Bad) to compile His chosen books (Good) isn't out of the question is it?

My next problem with it is how did Paul come to take such precedence in the New Testament? Who really was Paul that his writings take such precedence over what is supposed to be Jesus' very words? Paul never met Jesus nor was he ever taught by him. But, most of the New Testament books were written by Paul.

I personally don't see Paul taking precedence over Christ, I see him being enslaved by Christ as he himself said many many times. A slave is not greater than his master. You know, the Israelites complained similarly about Moses. Who the heck did Moses think he was, they said. We're as good as him...Paul was chosen just as Moses was chosen (And by the same guy). He spoke not HIS words but the words of his master. Also, Paul surely met Jesus, not in the flesh, but on the road while traveling and was blinded by Christ's glory. He was also temporarily taken to heaven too, right?

Are you so sure you are following Jesus and not Paul?
Sheep know their shepherd. Are you familiar with real sheep?

If the book compiled by the Catholics is so trustworthy, why are they not trusted in other matters?
Again, they didn't write it, they only compiled it. Don't forget, the Catholics were KEEPING it away from everyone else (Untrustworthy). So, while it was in their unauthorized HOARDFUL posession, God had them do something useful with it, canonize the 66. God can force bad people to do good things.

Just my thoughtsThank you for sharing them, they are good thoughts.

(Hey I do drive a 1967 VW 21 DLX split window bus....so I can talk!)

Hye, I'm diggin that vehicle bro!!

I believe:

God created a physical world that was SURELY "Good and Bad" right from the beginning.

Yet He called it ALL VERY GOOD. Why?

Because it would suit HIS will and purpose...

Things created by God that God called GOOD:

Poisonous snakes
Mosquitoes
Poisonous spiders
Poop and pee from all animals
Bad sights
Bad tastes
Bad smells
Bad feelings
Harmful bacteria
Harmful virues
Radio active elements
Sharks
Electric Eels
Portuguese Man O' War
Ticks, bugs
Parasites
Flies
PAIN
Animals that DIE
Cold
HOT
TEARS
Fungus
Poisonous plants and vegetation
Physical darkness
Diseases
A Human body with ANTI BODIES. To fight that which was "BAD," that was created by God

God CREATED Good and Bad.

And God called it ALL VERY GOOD.

Because it would suit HIS will and purpose...

That's what I believe.

So....who created them?

God did.

God also created man to make excrement from inside.

Hmmm. Good or Bad?

Was God REALLY creating "bad" things and calling them "GOOD" in the beginning?

Surely, $hit is bad.....right? But wait...dung is also GOOD. Eventually...

It becomes fertilizer...food for other living things...after time goes by, the bad will become good.

Caca - it's good and bad.

And it's from God.

Caca, it's what's for supper!