Posts by pomegranate

nathan knorr the great jw merchandiser coined the phrase the new world society to give the jws a special identity and to have a catchy slogan that new recruits would want to be a part of.

to kick off the new marketing campaign he set out with an entourage of people on tour to personally make his pitch at international assemblies.

pomegranate

Did Jesus appear to the eleven or to the twelve apostles after his resurrection?

Consider:

1 Cor. 15:5 Paul claims that Jesus was seen by all twelve apostles (including Judas) after Judas' suicide and before Jesus' resurrection. (Mk.16:18 says he was seen by "the eleven.") It should be noted that this was before Matthias was selected to replace Judas.

1 Cor 15:5
...and then to the Twelve.

Please note, Paul DOES NOT CLAIM in ANY SENSE in this sentence that all these men who Christ showed himself to were APOSTLES. He says he was seen BY TWELVE, of which eleven WERE APOSTLES and another was Judas brother of JAMES, who WAS NOT an Apostle. Paul saying Christ was seen by these twelve doesn't make one who wasn't an Apostle an Apostle does it? Or could someone explain to me how Jesus showing himself to the eleven Apostles and Judas (who just happened to be present) who wasn't an Apostle, makes him an Apostle? It doesn't. This is a CLASSIC WRONG ASSUMPTION.

Judas brother of James was NEVER an Apostle, but was with the eleven Apostles when Christ showed himself to the eleven.

Mark 16:18 - Mark only mentions the 11 Apostles, (though Judas brother of James was present.)
1 Cor. 15:5 - Paul mentions both the 11 Apostles and the 12th (Judas) who was present (though NOT an Apostle)

That's the way I see it.

Edited by - pomegranate on 20 August 2002 15:35:47

16

pomegranate's story (Never before published)

by pomegranate in

jw
friends

maybe this will be helpful to others.

how pomegranate became free from jw slavery.

it was just before i was 10 that my mom and dad began studying with jw's.

pomegranate

Good morning everyone!! There is common denominator with all our stories, isn't there?.

I hope this can help others to see that this JW religion is not "the Way." Well, it is the way to chains and shakles and heavy yokes.

It's surely story like these, time and time again, with all kinds of folks from different walks of life
that reveal the TRUTH about JW's. They do not have the truth. They never had it and never will.

May all experience the freedom that only the full release from JW slavery can bring.

pomegranate

12

what now?

by musky in

i have not been to meetings in about 15 plus years.

a born again christian debated with me for a long time.

i finally decided the witnesses were wrong and stopped going.

pomegranate

Bingo!

Me thinks that way too Lilacs...

All religion is false religion.

Read Proverbs 2.

16

pomegranate's story (Never before published)

by pomegranate in

jw
friends

maybe this will be helpful to others.

how pomegranate became free from jw slavery.

it was just before i was 10 that my mom and dad began studying with jw's.

pomegranate

Maybe this will be helpful to others.

How pomegranate Became Free From JW Slavery

It was just before I was 10 that my mom and dad began studying with JW's. My folks and older brother ended up getting baptized. We became JW's. I think the younger a person is sucked into these people, the deeper and more serious the "indoctrination." As it goes for probably everyone, on the surface it seemed the truth, my folks were doing it, so it must be OK. I followed along.

Things were OK I guess for a couple of years, being now 11 or 12. But things began to change. It seemed even with this "true" religion, it wasn't strong enough to hold my parents together. My father was disfellowshipped because the mid seventies had the JWs having their law, if you smoke your out. My Dad was an addict and couldnt quit. All kinds of problems came upThey separated and headed for divorce. Of course, all that crap (shunning) with my Dad being DFd had to be dealt with. The family was a basket case.

One morning on a school day, my older brother wakes me up in a panic. I looked quickly at my clock and noticed that it was an hour or so later than when my mom would usually wake me up for school. I knew something was weird...my brother grabbed me and we ran upstairs.

My mother was lying slumped across her bed, and on her nightstand were some pill bottles, empty. We tried to wake her up, but it didn't help. Of course my dad wasn't around because of the separation and he was working. So me and my older brother start to pull her out of bed to get her walking and moving around. I'm young at this point, a very small boy in comparison to most, not too strong, and here I am trying to hold my mother up with my brother on the other side walking (more like dragging her around the room) to bring her to. It wasn't working to good. Meanwhile, my younger brother (9 years old) was calling the ambulance.

The ambulance arrived, and my mom was whisked away to the hospital. She was in there for quite a while with things looking pretty bad. But, she did eventually come around and was released. That whole situation in the beginning of my life made me begin to look at his world very different. I was deeply indoctrinated to the JW's, but I sensed something just wasn't right. The deep indoctrination was there (that JWs is the only way), but something in my heart broke when that struggle with my mom happened, as the family continued on it's way to complete break down...

The teen years were horrid for me. At 13, starting abusing drugs and alcohol. Was half in and half out of going to meetings. All the while I was out or "half assed" in (pardon the expression), I always had it in my head that JW's were right and the true religion. I got involved with musicians and bands, as I am a musician. Lived that life til my early 20's. That life style is a strain on someone who abuses drugs and alcohol because that's all that's around. Met my wife. To make a long story short, she started studying with JWs, got baptized. Of course she learned about JW's from me. Meanwhile, I'm still out in left field, a zonked out musician. After a few stays in hospitals and counseling centers, I finally was able to drop the drugs and booze. Of course one thing led to another. I got baptized as a JW too. :-/

In my stay as a JW, right from the start my wife and I were seeing the hypocrisy and corruption. The first DRAMATIC revelation was a man (servant) in the hall was "doing" his daughters. I was appalled. It was handled the way they usually handle abuse, hushed up. But things went on. The body of elders was imposing more and more ridiculous laws. But, weird as it was, we stayed. Even weirder, that's when I became a servant. (Someone with responsibility) That's when I really began to "see" what that org. is all about. I will tell you this, every man that is in the status of servant and elder does "see" what the JW's really are. These men of "position" know full well how corrupt the legalistic approach to religion is. And Jealousy? I have never seen more of that in my life. Along with the jealousy, comes the lying and slander...I started hearing and seeing all of the mud. Even just as a servant.

A number of congs around us had full bodies (elders) removed. Intolerence, lording over, sexual deviation was some of the reasons. Then one of my very good close friends had his daughter molested by a servant in his hall. I had a good friend who was a missionary in Honduras who would come back and tell stories how the Branch brothers were some of the most politicing, brown nosing, back stabbing people he had ever seen and known...these things were all coming all at once into me and my wifes eyes. Bombarded with stuff that should not be if we had the true "religion". This was the bad fruitage, all bad fruitage.

Then, the last straw for us was when my wife was accused by an elder of spreading a story, that at a recent assembly, one of the governing body (Carry Barber) made a sexual pass at my WIFE!! She was supposedly going around telling people in the hall that!! I got dragged down into the library (hell hole!) and they confronted me with some of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. The first thing I asked when I was confronted with the accusations was... WHO IS SAYING THESE THINGS? Their reply? Oh...we can't tell you that. WHAT! YOU CAN'T TELL ME THAT! ARE YOU CRAZY? This person or persons, whoever it is, is slandering me and my wifes good name. I DEMAND TO KNOW WHO IT IS!! Nope. They would not budge. My wife was guilty by their lynch court. Of course I didn't stand for it. I made all the fire and smoke I could out of it. Brought it to the top (Circuit Overseer). But it was ALL done COVERED UP with such ridiculousness.

Men (elders) were LYING in meetings under prayer. My eyes were being opened. The CO was trying to dodge it. We had a new Presiding Overseer come into our hall because of all the bad things that were going on. The source of the slander ended up being the very elders wife who was accusing my wife because she was jealous of US. It was so twisted and things got so INSANE. In all my years of living I have never seen anything like it. This is the truth? My _ss.

I removed myself as a servant. Before I did, I had a public talk in the hall. It was my last one. And the body of the talk was ON THE ELDERS ABUSING THEIR AUTHORITY!!! I gave the talk just as the outline showed, right from the society. When I got to the elders part, OHHHhh Man. I saw elders wives note books SLAM SHUT! The expressions on the faces of the Boyz were UNBELIEVABLE. And I was just sticking to the outline. Totally! The new PO got up out of his seat and walked out of the hall. He came back with a piece of paper in his hand, reading it intently. I knew what it was even while I was up on the stage, It was the Societies outline of the VERY TALK I WAS GIVING! He was checking to make sure I was sticking to the outline and not using the stage as a place to launch an attack!! You know, I really think God had something to do with it!! HAHAHAHA.

Anyways, after the talk I got grand applause except from you know who and their spouses. After the meeting the new PO comes up to me and says, Umm can I see you for a second. Down to the hellhole we go. He says, You were out of line with that talk. I said What? What do you mean? I was totally by the outline? He says, it was the way you were standing and holding on to the podium. You should have qualified everything with the Bible and not your own words. I said, I did do that. He says yeah but not enough. You were condescending. I said I stuck 100% to the outline, I did nothing wrong and it wasn't inaccurate right? Well, he said, you should not have presented that information, as you know the problems going on. I said, Well, YOU OK'd the outline for me to do, right? What's a matter, you didn't review the outline before it was given to me???.. Stutter stutter stutter...I got up and left hell.

The following week I called up the PO and gave my resignation. They were all trying like you would not believe to keep me on. But I said No...I don't think this "taking the lead" thing is for me. I'm removing myself. My wife and I never went back to a single meeting in that hall again. We didn't go to any meetings for months.

Unfortunately, it ain't done yet. My older brother happens to be the PO at a neighboring hall. He and other friends were saying to my family to get out of that hall and go to another. My brother suggested his hall. So we started going there. But...something was gone inside. The wind was out of my sail with this religion. The feeling was gone. We were just going through the motions, trying, but no spark. We were trudging along for a few months when guess what happened? The elder who was the source of the slanderous accusations in the other hall, moved into the same hall we were presently attending. My wife and I were numb and dumbfounded. My brother (PO) knowing full well our past situation with this brother comes up to me and says, Is this going to affect you? I looked at him cock-eyed with disbelief and said, what the heck do you think? Our full-fledged fizzle with the org was almost complete.

Slowly we stopped going there. We had the usual few (literally) visits saying "We miss you." My feelings were dead as a doornail. The odd thing was though; I still sensed the doctrines were OK. It's just their people sucked. :-/ So for a couple of years, I had that JW indoctrination feeling of guilt inside. I didnt look at a Bible or do anything-spiritualActually, for a long timeI began to lean towards atheism.

My wife decides she wants to do Christmas. I said do what you want. We end up celebrating (the first time for me in 30 years) and having a tree and all. Mind you, there has not been ONE visit of ANY JW'S for months on end. We get our first visit. A "brother" comes over to have a piece of jewelry fixed, (I'm a jeweler) and he saw the tree and turns around and does his informant routine. Mind you this guy never knocked on the door. He just saw the tree through the window. We didn't even know he came over until Mr. Elder Man came to visit. Of course it's "come have a meeting down the hall library so we can discuss it." I said FAT CHANCE, the last time I went into one of those meetings it was like a snake pit. NOPE. We ain't going. In my best George Bush Sr. voice I said, Not gonna do it! They then suggest they come to us at our house. They do, we talk, they say denounce Christmas or you'll be booted. Boot us!!! And out we go, into FREEDOM!!! The YOKE has finally been removed!!! WE CAN BREATH AGAIN!!!!!!

Then, through an odd chain of events, (which is a whole other story that I have not written out) I began to get reading material that showed me the hypocrisy of the teachings of JWs. I got on the net. I read books. I began studying Greek and Hebrew. IT'S ALL A PACK OF LIES! I Read Ray Franz's stuff.

I FINALLY began being deprogrammed and de-indoctrinated.

I CAN STILL BELIEVE IN GOD WITHOUT THE BOZO MORONIC TEACHINGS AND RIDICULOUS LAWS!!!!!

YES YES...

I now know the TRUE FREEDOM OF CHRIST!!!!!! THE YOKE IS OFF MY NECK. NO MORE MAN MADE TEACHINGS AND DOCTRINES.

I'M ALIVE!!!!!! I CAN BREATH!!!!!!!!

My wife and I and my four children have never been happier

There are not enough words to tell you what it is likeit must be like a slave being released from an evil master

I think maybe He yanked us outI really do. I thank Him so so much everyday.

But the sadness I feel for those still in is very deep. I pray for each and every one. Years of building friends are gone in a split second. We did leave some very close people. I mean closer that my siblingsthis pain caused by that religion is so bad. JWs to me are a modern day Pharisaic society

Well, I hope it didnt bore youbuthere I am in all my pomegranate glory.

Ric Bonnell aka pomegranate

typos

Edited by - pomegranate on 19 August 2002 18:50:48

10

What a Rush!

by COMF in

.

wish you could be here, cyggie..

pomegranate

I used to do Rush covers...

My fav was Red Barchetta...

10

What a Rush!

by COMF in

.

wish you could be here, cyggie..

pomegranate

Very enjoyable music.

I love the Permanent Waves album

37

The word, "Jehovah"

by Dia in

.

i just read that the name, 'jehovah' was created 700 years ago by a catholic monk who took the vowels from the word, 'lord' and combined them with the letters yhwh (the unpronounceable, biblical term for god).. anyone ever heard this or know a credible source for this info?.

now here's potentially something to share with your next visiting jw!.