original reddit post (removed).
Lloyd Evans commented under Kim Silvio's video rebuttal. Now I do have a question for Lloyd based on what he said. Lloyd, either you wear the same shirt for nearly every video for a month straight or you film most of your videos for an entire month in one day. Which is it?
original reddit post (removed).
Telltale uploaded a new video on Watchtower three days ago: 108,000 views
Loyd uploaded a new video on Watchtower four days ago: 3,900 views
Lloyd is a minnow compared with Telltale.
Even Lloyd’s own patrons are leaking his membership videos now - oh the irony.
Let's do a side by side comparison. Telltale has more than 3 times the subscribers on his main channel with less than half as many videos. Quality over quantity wins every time. So much for the argument that we are attacking Lloyd because he is the biggest channel that talks about Watchtower. Owen is also smart enough to expand his content to all cults and doesn't just make long rebuttals to Watchtower videos.
original reddit post (removed).
Even if all Lloyd did was give away 5 copies of Crisis of Conscience to his channel members, they would have been paying members.
(3) all other bootleg copies that were ordered from my Romanian friend were never printed, and those who paid for their orders had their payments refunded
And there you have it. Lloyd and his Romanian friend were stealing the copyright for profit and was planning on producing it in additional languages.
Deborah has known about these translations since I alerted her to them in December, but hasn’t once expressed any interest in making them available, either freely or otherwise. Is it morally defensible for Crisis of Conscience to be withheld in these languages?
I would argue that sitting on the rights of Crisis of Conscience and limiting its availability is tantamount to sitting on a stockpile of antibiotics in the midst of an epidemic. People need that information, and if you can’t find it within yourself to give it to them freely, you should at least give them the opportunity to pay for it.
original reddit post (removed).
One could argue that the 2017 mess started years earlier.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/42tiif/a_word_on_crisis_of_conscience_copyright_and_ray/A word on Crisis of Conscience, copyright, and Ray Franz's legacy
Note to mods/admins - I totally understand if you decide to remove this post. I'm bored of the subject myself, and will leave this to your discretion.
On November 22nd, 2015, I posted a video on my channel announcing a competition in which I would give away a copy of Crisis of Conscience, by Raymond Franz, to one of my readers. I had bought five unauthorised copies from a friend in Romania (for which I paid $50, or $10 per copy) for no other reason than that the book had been allowed to go out of print, and second-hand authorised hard copies were only available for exorbitant amounts on Amazon.
Little was I to know that two of my most determined “haters,” a couple of evangelical activists from New Mexico called Mike and Kim Brooks, would seize on my competition as a pretext to frame me as some sort of criminal. They released a video in which they tearfully bemoaned the fact that I was distributing bootleg copies of a copyrighted work, apparently oblivious to the fact that PDF copies of the book available on their own website represented just as much a violation of copyright as my reproduction hard copies.
More video diatribes followed, with one especially fixated hater, Joel the “Unwitness,” declaring me an intellectual property thief. The situation escalated to such an extent that the copyright holder, Deborah Dykstra, was called upon to make a statement in which she strongly implicated me as an infringer of her copyrighted work. Rather than approach me privately to resolve matters, Dykstra allowed herself to be swayed by the Brooks’ and other activists who had an axe to grind. I eventually received a formal “cease and desist” letter via UPS at my home in Croatia, which probably cost more to write and send than the total value of the bootleg books.
On receiving the letter, I contacted Deborah directly and quickly managed to reach an agreement. It was agreed that (1) I would remove all third-party links to Crisis of Conscience on JWsurvey, (2) I would pay her $50, or 100% royalties for my five bootleg copies, (3) I would ensure all details for others to order bootleg copies were removed from Facebook and Reddit, and (4) I would arrange for all placed orders of bootleg copies other than my five copies to be cancelled, and the buyers refunded. (Fortunately, although a number of orders were placed with my Romanian friend, none of the books had yet been printed, thus allowing him to abort any further unauthorised reproduction and return all the money.)
Once all of these issues were successfully resolved, Deborah agreed that the matter was finally settled.
However, on learning that some exJWs were complaining that the videos announcing my competition and showing the bootleg copies were still on YouTube, Deborah decided to “un-settle” matters and asked me to delete the videos in question.
Since the videos were not exclusively to do with Crisis of Conscience (one was about a lawsuit in Belgium, and the other was an explanation of the “haters” phenomenon in the exJW movement), I couldn’t agree to deleting the videos. I did, however, offer to insert annotations on the videos in the relevant parts by way of disclaimers, so that people watching my videos would know that I do not support or endorse the distribution of unauthorised copies now that the copyright holder had come forward and made her feelings known on the matter.
Deborah agreed to this compromise and, for a second time, the matter was settled.
Then, at some point over Christmas I was emailed by someone calling herself “Hadriel Haze” who claimed to represent Deborah since, apparently, she no longer wished to deal with me directly. Hadriel made it clear that Deborah wanted the videos removed, and told me that she had already lodged complaints with YouTube so that YouTube could remove the videos arbitrarily. (As it turns out, YouTube must have rejected these complaints because the videos were never removed.)
I explained to Hadriel that I had already had lengthy email exchanges with Deborah, that we had twice before resolved matters, and that I couldn’t allow Deborah to keep moving the goalposts. There would be no third settlement. A line had to be drawn, and I objected to having my YouTube channel censored simply because, as I saw it, certain exJWs hell bent on my downfall wanted to see me silenced and humiliated. In particular, I could well understand why the very people I had described as obsessive haters in my “announcing the winner” video would want that particular video removed at all costs.
After Hadriel refused to take no for an answer, I made it clear to her that, as far as I was concerned, the copyright fiasco was settled. I told her that if either she or Deborah emailed me again on the matter, I would consider it harassment and make public my concerns over Deborah’s handing of the matter.
I was particularly disappointed by Deborah’s apparent disinterest in launching Crisis of Conscience in a number of new translations that have recently been completed (namely Croatian, Hungarian, and Romanian). Such neglect was, I felt, a grave disservice to Ray Franz’s legacy, and I felt confident that Deborah would at least see the sense in putting an end to bothering me in favour of not having all this brought to everyone’s attention.
A few peaceful weeks passed until today, January 26th, 2016, I learned that Hadriel had re-surfaced on a certain forum complaining about my actions and my “threatening” of her and Deborah. I also learned that my friend, Patrick Haeck, had been sent intimidating messages due to his being present on the video where I announced the competition.
After giving the matter careful thought, and fully investigating my options, I decided the best thing to do was to edit the “giveaway” video and the “announcing the winner” video so that all objectionable references to bootleg copies of Crisis of Conscience were removed. (I wasn't aware that I could do this until today.) Now that the videos are edited, ALL perceived grievances that Deborah Dykstra may have against me, including those of any who claim to represent her, are now fully settled.
To recap, we now have a situation where:
(1) a competition in which a bootleg copy of Crisis was offered as a prize was altered, so that an authorised copy was given away instead
(2) the five bootleg copies, the only ones of their kind to be produced to my knowledge, have all been effectively authorised by the copyright holder, Deborah Dykstra, who has accepted $50 by way of royalties
(3) all other bootleg copies that were ordered from my Romanian friend were never printed, and those who paid for their orders had their payments refunded
(4) all links to PDF copies of Crisis of Conscience have been removed from JWsurvey
(5) all details for ordering more bootleg copies of Crisis of Conscience have been removed from Reddit and Facebook, and
(6) all objectionable references to bootleg copies of Crisis of Conscience have been edited out of the two relevant YouTube videos on the John Cedars channel.
There is now no conceivable reason for anyone to perpetuate this bizarre witch-hunt, whether it is Hadriel Haze, Mike and Kim Brooks, Deborah Dykstra, Joel Martz the "Unwitness," or anyone else.
It is my sincere hope that at some point Deborah Dykstra will fully understand the responsibility she has inherited as copyright holder of Ray Franz’s works. Yes, she has the right to do whatever she wants with Crisis of Conscience, either to not make any copies available, or to make copies available at great expense. The decision is entirely hers, and we must ultimately respect that.
However, I believe there is a strong moral argument for Deborah to at least consider making PDF copies of Crisis of Conscience freely available in all languages. Around 8 million Jehovah’s Witnesses are currently sorely in need of the information in Crisis of Conscience, many of whom will be living in dire poverty in developing countries where even a modest outlay of 1 or 2 dollars is prohibitive.
As regards new translations, the languages of Croatian, Hungarian and Romanian currently account for around 70,000 indoctrinated Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the translations have been available and ready to distribute for weeks.
Deborah has known about these translations since I alerted her to them in December, but hasn’t once expressed any interest in making them available, either freely or otherwise. Is it morally defensible for Crisis of Conscience to be withheld in these languages?
I would argue that sitting on the rights of Crisis of Conscience and limiting its availability is tantamount to sitting on a stockpile of antibiotics in the midst of an epidemic. People need that information, and if you can’t find it within yourself to give it to them freely, you should at least give them the opportunity to pay for it.
To deprive people of the information in Crisis of Conscience is literally to keep people in a cult who would otherwise be rapidly awakening.
I sincerely hope Deborah can summon the presence of mind to make this life-saving resource as widely available as possible instead of threatening litigation, helping to perpetuate witch hunts, and otherwise bowing to the whims of people whose agenda has little to do with healthy, progressive, strategic activism. The ball is now well and truly in her court, and in many ways always was.
hi everyone i’m a pimo elder ex bethelite and pioneer who has been having doubts for many years.
as of late i’ve come to have even more doubts mainly due to the gb pushing the vaccines and acting like salesman for big pharma companies .
i will never take these vaccines even if it meant i couldn’t go to the hall as was previously said but the gb have done a big u turn on this now.
the thing is I do quite like all the good things about the Borg and I like the meetings lots of good people thereIf you don't mind - What do you think is 'good' about the 'Borg'?
That would be my question too. I don't have fond memories of my time as a JW; which is why I left in 2000. If you are talking about some of the nice people, pleasant people can be found anywhere. If anything, I appreciate not being judged as to if I am "spiritually strong" by the people on the outside.
original reddit post (removed).
After taking a second look at Lloyd's letter to his late mother, there is at least one alternative inescapable conclusion. Lloyd has no problem with profiting off of his dead mother if it means getting a little sympathy. The letter screams "look at me."
how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.
they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .
with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.
I would love for David Splane to show us how shaking hands with Fred Franz makes you part of the 1914 generation by using the bible. That overlapping chart was the most absurd thing Watchtower has ever done. Mr. Splane tries to make himself appear to be the next Fred Franz, but he is a at best an imitation.
i was a twenty y/old when i converted to the jw religion and was a problem drinker and i was a chain smoker .when i was baptized at a circuit assembly a year later , my conversion and change in lifestyle was given as an example of the effectiveness of incidental witnessing to the audience.. so i can point to the 2 positives becoming a jw .. 1.i gave up smoking.
2.i gave up drinking for a while ,but because i still had association with my wife`s and my family who were not jw`s ,i learnt to control my social drinking when i started again.. and i have been a responsible drinker ever since ,even though i left the religion 29 years ago.. the negative points of being a jw in my 32 years of being one ?
are far too great to list here .. love to hear your thoughts..
I can't think of a single positive experience that is unique to the JW faith.
original reddit post (removed).
...would join Dad in shunning me and Dijana—even if it meant never seeing your granddaughter.
Nothing screams narcissist quite like putting yourself before Dijana and Jessica. Lloyd certainly would have read this letter to his late mother several times to make sure every word is perfect.
original reddit post (removed).
Ashtyn & Jon, you have just been added to the lawsuit for saying about Lloyd, "that dude, trash." Karlo Novosel will be in touch.
