Posts by pizzahut2023

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

J7 is my favorite J version, because it is the one that got me out of the Witnesses.

It was J7 having 1 Thessalonians 4:16 saying the "Jehovah himself will descend from heaven" that struck the first serious doubt I had about the witnesses.

J7 is:

Novum Testamentum Dn̄i: Nr̄i: Iesu Christi, Syriacè, Ebraicè, Græcè, Latinè, Germanicè, Bohemicè, Italicè, Hispanicè, Gallicè, Anglicè, Danicè, Polonicè (New Testament in 12 languages, including Hebrew), by Elias Hutter, Nuremberg, 1599-1600. This edition is often referred to as the Nuremberg Polyglot New Testament. The translation into Hebrew uses יהוה in the main text of various verses.

You can find it here:

https://archive.org/details/hutter-polyglot/1-%20Matthew/mode/2up

(You can see each book individually in that link).

Also known as Hutter's Polyglot, the Watchtower has written an article extolling its virtues:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no4-2017-july/elias-hutter-hebrew-bibles/

"How good was Hutter’s Hebrew translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures? Noted 19th-century Hebrew scholar Franz Delitzsch wrote: “His Hebrew translation reveals a grasp of the language rare among Christians and it is still worth consulting, for in instance after instance he has been most fortunate in striking on precisely the right expression.”"

"In translating from the original Greek, Hutter appropriately rendered the titles Kyʹri·os (Lord) and The·osʹ (God) as “Jehovah” (יהוה, JHVH) where the text is a quotation from the Hebrew Scriptures or where he felt it referred to Jehovah."

Note that the Watchtower leaves itself an "out": "where HE felt it referred to Jehovah."

Hutter refers to Jesus as Jehovah many many times in his polyglot!! Guess the Watchtower will say "well, that's just his opinion"!

I will start posting where Hutter goes against the Watchtower.

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

shows a strong trinitarian bias

That is exactly my point with this whole thread, not necessarily to prove/disprove the trinity, but to show how the Watchtower used even hundreds (300 J versions in the latest NWT) of different versions, the vast majority of which are more trinitarian than the most trinitarian of "traditional" New Testaments, selected in specific moments, to end up with a translation which has a strong ANTI trinitarian bias...

At the end of the day, it goes to show that anyone with an agenda can create a Bible that suits their ideological bias.

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

J6 in Matthew 8:25 DOES, however, call "The Lord" in Hebrew "HaAdohn", a title that the Watchtower says corresponds exclusively to Jehovah.

J6 includes Mark 16:9-20, which the Watchtower holds as spurious.

It calls the first "Lord" HaAdohn in heb, "God" is called "Elohim", and the second "Lord" (referring to Jesus) is called "YHWH" in heb.

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

Oops. J6 in Matthew 8:25 does NOT say "Elohim" in hebrew.

I misread two letters. It's a different word.

I continue my search...

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

George Howard’s argument is that Shem Tob is a medieval version of Matthew that reflects a much earlier version of Matthew in Hebrew, not that it itself is the exact form of the original Hebrew Matthew.

Agreed.

Shem Tob might have quoted the version inaccurately at points, which might explain odd features such as the etcetera comment. So it can be difficult to work out firstly where Shem Tob is quoting accurately and secondly where the medieval Hebrew Matthew accurately reflects a possible ancient original. Where Shem Tob wrote “the Name” in abbreviated from, the name YHWH presumably appeared in the original Hebrew version of Matthew of the first century.

Well... The "etc" comment appears multiple times. Both Jesus and Satan use it. I guess both were lazy and didn't like quoting scriptures in their entirety.

One of the most interesting differences, in my opinion, is the omission of the threefold baptismal commission “in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit” in Matt 28.20.
Was this phrase added to Matthew in later centuries to give it a more Trinitarian flavour?
If I recall correctly, there are no manuscripts or quotations of this verse in that form earlier than around
250 CE and a couple of quotations which appear to omit it.

The phrase is omitted, yes. But if we see the entirety of the text, I would say even this Matthew leans trinitarian.

In various moments, Jesus is called HaAdon, which, according to the Watchtower, is exclusively used for "Jehovah" in the Masoretic text.

Please take a moment to read my analysis. In some cases, it does give credibility to Watchtower's teachings. But in the vast majority of cases,

the Watchtower and its teachings... loses.

Loses with respects to the trinity, with respects to the soul being the life, with respects to the cross, among others.

Christianity also loses because the one in the parable of the travelling "master" is seen as an idiot that can be robbed and still recompenses the person who robbed him!

But, like every time the Watchtower uses sources, it uses the source only when it agrees with it, but never when it doesn't.

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

Continuing my analysis of J6:

In Matthew 8:25, where the NWT reads:

25 And they came and woke him up, saying: “Lord, save us, we are about to perish!”

It says this:

Note that in German it is HERR (all caps), meaning LORD
Same in Latin, all caps, meaning LORD
In greek, Kurie, without the "ho", meaning, also, LORD

But in Hebrew, WOW! "Elohim", meaning God!

The apostles, according to J6, called Jesus, right in front of them, God!

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

J6

Euangelia anniuersaria Dominicorum et Festorum dierum, Germanicè, Latinè, Graecè, & Ebraicè (Liturgical Gospels, in German, Latin, Greek, and Hebrew), by Johannes Clajus, Leipzig, 1576. The translation into Hebrew uses יהוה in the main text of some verses.

You can find it here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=YDVuR-q9JH4C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

This one is also a Liturgical book. The good thing is that it is in multiple languages I can read.

This version is very trinitarian.

For example, on pages 38-39, the liturgy is from Luke 2.

Particularly in Luke 2:11, we see that in the other languages it's Christ [the] Lord.

But in Hebrew is Messiah YHWH:

I will try and find other places where this version is very trinitarian, but that's as Trinitarian as you can get: saying that YHWH was born and that He's the Messiah.

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

J5:

בשורת הקרואות שנה בשנה בשבתות ובחגי, Euangelia anniuersaria, quae Dominicis diebus & in Sanctorum festis leguntur, Hebraicè conuersa (Liturgical Gospels, in Hebrew), by Fridericus Petri, Antwerp, 1581. This translation uses יהוה in the main text of some verses.

https://books.google.com/books?id=qsRIAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

This version has just snippets of various Bible verses, it DOES tell me the book name and chapter but the verses and everything else are in Hebrew, so again, very difficult for me to read.

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

J4:

תורת המשיח . . . כפי מתי המבשר, Sanctum Domini nostri Iesu Christi Hebraicum Euangelium secundum Matthæum (Gospel of Matthew, in Hebrew), edited by Johannes Quinquarboreus, Paris, 1551. This translation uses יהוה in the main text of some verses.

It can be found here:

https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb10205825?page=,1

Just like J1, everything is in Hebrew, even the numbering of the chapters and verses, so I cannot read it easily.

Hopefully someone who knows Hebrew can read it and let us know if there's anything interesting.

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

I continue now with J3:

תורת המשיח, Euangelium secundum Matthæum in lingua hebraica . . . Vnà cum Epistola D. Pauli ad Hebræos, Hebraicè & Latinè (Gospel of Matthew and Paul’s letter to the Hebrews, in Hebrew and Latin), by Sebastian Münster, Basel, 1557. The translation into Hebrew uses יהוה or an abbreviated form of the Tetragrammaton in the main text of some verses.

It can be found here:

https://archive.org/details/NCHEBHebrewGospelOfMatthew2ndEditionWithHebrewLetterToTheHebrewsInAppendixSebastianMunster1557/page/n479/mode/2up

It doesn't really have anything too interesting.

In Hebrew it reads the word for "bow down/worship" applied both to Jesus and to YHWH.

Same thing for the Latin word for worship, "adoratio"

Other than that I didn't see anything too interesting.