pizzahut2023

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Posts by pizzahut2023

• 
  34

  A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

  by pizzahut2023 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

  this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

  http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pizzahut2023

  Acts 9:1

  

  Acts 9:5

  

  Acts 9:6

  

  Acts 9:10

  

  Acts 9:11

  

  Acts 9:15

  

  Acts 9:27

  
  
• 
  34

  A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

  by pizzahut2023 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

  this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

  http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pizzahut2023

  I continue with my analysis of J7, aka the Hutter Polyglot from 1599.
  
  It's one thing to have one text or another identify Jesus with Jehovah, but it's a whole other thing to have a whole chapter identifying Jesus with Jehovah, again and again! Well, that's J7 in Acts 9 for ya!
  
  I quote the NWT and then J7:
  
  NWT:
  
  

  (Acts 9:1) . . .But Saul, still breathing threat and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest

  J7:
  But Saul, still breathing threat and murder against the disciples of JEHOVAH, went to the high priest
  NWT:
  
  (Acts 9:5) 5 He asked: “Who are you, Lord?” He said: “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
  J7:
  (Acts 9:5) 5 He asked: “Who are you, Lord?” And JEHOVAH said: “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
  
  NWT:
  
  (Acts 9:6) . . .But get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
  J7:
  He, fearful and trembling, said: Lord, what would you like me to do? And JEHOVAH said: "get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."
  
  NWT:
  
  (Acts 9:10) . . .There was a disciple named An·a·niʹas in Damascus, and the Lord said to him in a vision: “An·a·niʹas!” He said: “Here I am, Lord.”
  J7:
  (Acts 9:10) . . .There was a disciple named An·a·niʹas in Damascus, and JEHOVAH said to him in a vision: “An·a·niʹas!” He said: “Here I am, Lord.”
  
  NWT:
  (Acts 9:11) 11 The Lord said to him: “Get up, go to the street called Straight, and look for a man named Saul, from Tarsus, at the house of Judas. For look! he is praying,
  J7: JEHOVAH said to him: “Get up, go to the street called Straight, and look for a man named Saul, from Tarsus, at the house of Judas. For look! he is praying,
  NWT:
  (Acts 9:15) . . .But the Lord said to him: “Go! because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel.
  J7:
  
  But JEHOVAH said to him: “Go! because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel.
  NWT:
  (Acts 9:27) 27 So Barʹna·bas came to his aid and led him to the apostles, and he told them in detail how on the road he had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had spoken boldly in the name of Jesus. . .
  J7:
  
  (Acts 9:27) 27 So Barʹna·bas came to his aid and led him to the apostles, and he told them in detail how on the road he had seen JEHOVAH, and that he had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had spoken boldly in the name of Jesus. . .
  
  The Tetragrammaton appears in verses 31, 35, and 42 of Acts 9 in J7, and in vs 31, the Watchtower agrees with Hutter and puts "Jehovah" in there, but in the other verses puts "Lord". However, in verses 35 and 42 it's not immediately obvious which "Lord" is being spoken about so it's not an obvious identification of Jesus with Jehovah.
  
  The most obvious (and shocking) one is Acts 9:5, for sure.
  
  In another post I will put up the pictures so you can see for yourselves.
  
• 
  34

  A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

  by pizzahut2023 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

  this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

  http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pizzahut2023

  Pardon my being obviously obtuse, but could someone kindly explain the interest in these MSS ? of what significance are they to our determining what was originally written all those Centuries before these Texts appeared ?

  no worries!

  Firstly, these are not (with maybe only the first one) manuscripts, as they were not handwritten, they're all from 1385 onwards, so there was printing already.

  These are Bible versions that various people have made that agree with the Watchtower on one thing: "Jehovah" should be in the New Testament.
  
  That's where the similarity ends. WHERE in the New Testament should "Jehovah" go, that's a whole different story. These 300 versions all have different opinions on where "Jehovah" should go or where it shouldn't, and the vast majority of them are very, very, very trinitarian.
  
  They put "Jehovah" in places where the Watchtower would never ever agree with, because it would make the text extremely trinitarian, like in Luke 2:11. "Jehovah" wasn't born, it was Jesus who was born, but many of these J versions say that "Jehovah" was born.
  
  So the interest of this study is to show the reader how utterly corrupt the New World Translation is, that it neglects 5000 or more New Testament Greek manuscripts and favors Bibles, some even from 2012 (!!!), that agree with what it says instead.
  
  None of the existing 5000 greek manuscripts of the New Testament ever mention "Jehovah". So the evidence points to the autographs, the original NT, not having the tetragrammaton in it. The Watchtower doesn't accept that, and uses these Bibles to justify inserting (they call it "restoring") Jehovah into the New Testament.
• 
  34

  A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

  by pizzahut2023 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

  this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

  http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pizzahut2023

  John 20:20 in the Hutter Bible is Trinitarian. The Watchtower says that "HaAdon" is exclusively used in the Masoretic text to refer to Jehovah.
  
  Surely Hutter knew this. And yet, he still decided to call Jesus "HaAdon" (The True Lord) in John 20:20.

  
  
• 
  34

  A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

  by pizzahut2023 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

  this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

  http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pizzahut2023

  The Hutter Polyglot also has Aramaic, and in the Aramaic, in Luke 2:11, Hutter is again very trinitarian:
  
  Not only does he put the Tetragrammaton, but he puts MarYah. So Luke 2:11 could read as "Jehovah the Lord Yah the Messiah was born".
  
  
  
• 
  34

  A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

  by pizzahut2023 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

  this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

  http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pizzahut2023

  The Hutter Polyglot is in reality very trinitarian.
  
  Luke 2:11, for example, says that "Jehovah the Christ" was born! What's interesting is that in other languages in general he puts "Lord" (in this case, in Spanish), but in Hebrew, it's the Tetragrammaton.
  
  
  
• 
  34

  A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

  by pizzahut2023 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

  this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

  http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pizzahut2023

  J7 is my favorite J version, because it is the one that got me out of the Witnesses.
  
  It was J7 having 1 Thessalonians 4:16 saying the "Jehovah himself will descend from heaven" that struck the first serious doubt I had about the witnesses.
  
  J7 is:

  Novum Testamentum Dn̄i: Nr̄i: Iesu Christi, Syriacè, Ebraicè, Græcè, Latinè, Germanicè, Bohemicè, Italicè, Hispanicè, Gallicè, Anglicè, Danicè, Polonicè (New Testament in 12 languages, including Hebrew), by Elias Hutter, Nuremberg, 1599-1600. This edition is often referred to as the Nuremberg Polyglot New Testament. The translation into Hebrew uses יהוה in the main text of various verses.

  You can find it here:
  
  https://archive.org/details/hutter-polyglot/1-%20Matthew/mode/2up

  (You can see each book individually in that link).

  
  Also known as Hutter's Polyglot, the Watchtower has written an article extolling its virtues:
  
  https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no4-2017-july/elias-hutter-hebrew-bibles/
  
  "How good was Hutter’s Hebrew translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures? Noted 19th-century Hebrew scholar Franz Delitzsch wrote: “His Hebrew translation reveals a grasp of the language rare among Christians and it is still worth consulting, for in instance after instance he has been most fortunate in striking on precisely the right expression.”"
  
  "In translating from the original Greek, Hutter appropriately rendered the titles Kyʹri·os (Lord) and The·osʹ (God) as “Jehovah” (יהוה, JHVH) where the text is a quotation from the Hebrew Scriptures or where he felt it referred to Jehovah."
  
  Note that the Watchtower leaves itself an "out": "where HE felt it referred to Jehovah."
  
  Hutter refers to Jesus as Jehovah many many times in his polyglot!! Guess the Watchtower will say "well, that's just his opinion"!
  
  I will start posting where Hutter goes against the Watchtower.
• 
  34

  A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

  by pizzahut2023 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

  this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

  http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pizzahut2023

  shows a strong trinitarian bias

  That is exactly my point with this whole thread, not necessarily to prove/disprove the trinity, but to show how the Watchtower used even hundreds (300 J versions in the latest NWT) of different versions, the vast majority of which are more trinitarian than the most trinitarian of "traditional" New Testaments, selected in specific moments, to end up with a translation which has a strong ANTI trinitarian bias...

  At the end of the day, it goes to show that anyone with an agenda can create a Bible that suits their ideological bias.
• 
  34

  A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

  by pizzahut2023 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

  this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

  http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pizzahut2023

  J6 in Matthew 8:25 DOES, however, call "The Lord" in Hebrew "HaAdohn", a title that the Watchtower says corresponds exclusively to Jehovah.
  
  J6 includes Mark 16:9-20, which the Watchtower holds as spurious.
  
  

  It calls the first "Lord" HaAdohn in heb, "God" is called "Elohim", and the second "Lord" (referring to Jesus) is called "YHWH" in heb.
• 
  34

  A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

  by pizzahut2023 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

  this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

  http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pizzahut2023

  Oops. J6 in Matthew 8:25 does NOT say "Elohim" in hebrew.
  
  I misread two letters. It's a different word.

  I continue my search...