Posts by pizzahut2023

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

Pardon my being obviously obtuse, but could someone kindly explain the interest in these MSS ? of what significance are they to our determining what was originally written all those Centuries before these Texts appeared ?

no worries!

Firstly, these are not (with maybe only the first one) manuscripts, as they were not handwritten, they're all from 1385 onwards, so there was printing already.

These are Bible versions that various people have made that agree with the Watchtower on one thing: "Jehovah" should be in the New Testament.

That's where the similarity ends. WHERE in the New Testament should "Jehovah" go, that's a whole different story. These 300 versions all have different opinions on where "Jehovah" should go or where it shouldn't, and the vast majority of them are very, very, very trinitarian.

They put "Jehovah" in places where the Watchtower would never ever agree with, because it would make the text extremely trinitarian, like in Luke 2:11. "Jehovah" wasn't born, it was Jesus who was born, but many of these J versions say that "Jehovah" was born.

So the interest of this study is to show the reader how utterly corrupt the New World Translation is, that it neglects 5000 or more New Testament Greek manuscripts and favors Bibles, some even from 2012 (!!!), that agree with what it says instead.

None of the existing 5000 greek manuscripts of the New Testament ever mention "Jehovah". So the evidence points to the autographs, the original NT, not having the tetragrammaton in it. The Watchtower doesn't accept that, and uses these Bibles to justify inserting (they call it "restoring") Jehovah into the New Testament.

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

John 20:20 in the Hutter Bible is Trinitarian. The Watchtower says that "HaAdon" is exclusively used in the Masoretic text to refer to Jehovah.

Surely Hutter knew this. And yet, he still decided to call Jesus "HaAdon" (The True Lord) in John 20:20.

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

The Hutter Polyglot also has Aramaic, and in the Aramaic, in Luke 2:11, Hutter is again very trinitarian:

Not only does he put the Tetragrammaton, but he puts MarYah. So Luke 2:11 could read as "Jehovah the Lord Yah the Messiah was born".

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

The Hutter Polyglot is in reality very trinitarian.

Luke 2:11, for example, says that "Jehovah the Christ" was born! What's interesting is that in other languages in general he puts "Lord" (in this case, in Spanish), but in Hebrew, it's the Tetragrammaton.

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

J7 is my favorite J version, because it is the one that got me out of the Witnesses.

It was J7 having 1 Thessalonians 4:16 saying the "Jehovah himself will descend from heaven" that struck the first serious doubt I had about the witnesses.

J7 is:

Novum Testamentum Dn̄i: Nr̄i: Iesu Christi, Syriacè, Ebraicè, Græcè, Latinè, Germanicè, Bohemicè, Italicè, Hispanicè, Gallicè, Anglicè, Danicè, Polonicè (New Testament in 12 languages, including Hebrew), by Elias Hutter, Nuremberg, 1599-1600. This edition is often referred to as the Nuremberg Polyglot New Testament. The translation into Hebrew uses יהוה in the main text of various verses.

You can find it here:

https://archive.org/details/hutter-polyglot/1-%20Matthew/mode/2up

(You can see each book individually in that link).

Also known as Hutter's Polyglot, the Watchtower has written an article extolling its virtues:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no4-2017-july/elias-hutter-hebrew-bibles/

"How good was Hutter’s Hebrew translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures? Noted 19th-century Hebrew scholar Franz Delitzsch wrote: “His Hebrew translation reveals a grasp of the language rare among Christians and it is still worth consulting, for in instance after instance he has been most fortunate in striking on precisely the right expression.”"

"In translating from the original Greek, Hutter appropriately rendered the titles Kyʹri·os (Lord) and The·osʹ (God) as “Jehovah” (יהוה, JHVH) where the text is a quotation from the Hebrew Scriptures or where he felt it referred to Jehovah."

Note that the Watchtower leaves itself an "out": "where HE felt it referred to Jehovah."

Hutter refers to Jesus as Jehovah many many times in his polyglot!! Guess the Watchtower will say "well, that's just his opinion"!

I will start posting where Hutter goes against the Watchtower.

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

shows a strong trinitarian bias

That is exactly my point with this whole thread, not necessarily to prove/disprove the trinity, but to show how the Watchtower used even hundreds (300 J versions in the latest NWT) of different versions, the vast majority of which are more trinitarian than the most trinitarian of "traditional" New Testaments, selected in specific moments, to end up with a translation which has a strong ANTI trinitarian bias...

At the end of the day, it goes to show that anyone with an agenda can create a Bible that suits their ideological bias.

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

J6 in Matthew 8:25 DOES, however, call "The Lord" in Hebrew "HaAdohn", a title that the Watchtower says corresponds exclusively to Jehovah.

J6 includes Mark 16:9-20, which the Watchtower holds as spurious.

It calls the first "Lord" HaAdohn in heb, "God" is called "Elohim", and the second "Lord" (referring to Jesus) is called "YHWH" in heb.

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

Oops. J6 in Matthew 8:25 does NOT say "Elohim" in hebrew.

I misread two letters. It's a different word.

I continue my search...

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

George Howard’s argument is that Shem Tob is a medieval version of Matthew that reflects a much earlier version of Matthew in Hebrew, not that it itself is the exact form of the original Hebrew Matthew.

Agreed.

Shem Tob might have quoted the version inaccurately at points, which might explain odd features such as the etcetera comment. So it can be difficult to work out firstly where Shem Tob is quoting accurately and secondly where the medieval Hebrew Matthew accurately reflects a possible ancient original. Where Shem Tob wrote “the Name” in abbreviated from, the name YHWH presumably appeared in the original Hebrew version of Matthew of the first century.

Well... The "etc" comment appears multiple times. Both Jesus and Satan use it. I guess both were lazy and didn't like quoting scriptures in their entirety.

One of the most interesting differences, in my opinion, is the omission of the threefold baptismal commission “in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit” in Matt 28.20.
Was this phrase added to Matthew in later centuries to give it a more Trinitarian flavour?
If I recall correctly, there are no manuscripts or quotations of this verse in that form earlier than around
250 CE and a couple of quotations which appear to omit it.

The phrase is omitted, yes. But if we see the entirety of the text, I would say even this Matthew leans trinitarian.

In various moments, Jesus is called HaAdon, which, according to the Watchtower, is exclusively used for "Jehovah" in the Masoretic text.

Please take a moment to read my analysis. In some cases, it does give credibility to Watchtower's teachings. But in the vast majority of cases,

the Watchtower and its teachings... loses.

Loses with respects to the trinity, with respects to the soul being the life, with respects to the cross, among others.

Christianity also loses because the one in the parable of the travelling "master" is seen as an idiot that can be robbed and still recompenses the person who robbed him!

But, like every time the Watchtower uses sources, it uses the source only when it agrees with it, but never when it doesn't.

34

A New List of the J Versions and Where to Find them

by pizzahut2023 in

hi!i am doing a very long and exhaustive study of the "j" versions, based off the new study edition of the new world translation:https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

this list has about 300 sources, mostly bibles, that the jehovah's witnesses have used to "justify" their insertion of "jehovah" into the new testament.i am doing an excel spreadsheet of where to find digitized copies of these j versions and then some notes on them.. they contain some really interesting renderings, some that would make a jehovah's witness's head spin!for example, in j29:the original aramaic new testament in plain english (an american translation of the aramaic new testament), by glenn david bauscher, seventh edition, australia, 2012which you can find here:.

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/nt%20peshitta%207th%20ed%20plain%20text%20unnoted.pdfin luke 2:11 it says:.

pizzahut2023

Continuing my analysis of J6:

In Matthew 8:25, where the NWT reads:

25 And they came and woke him up, saying: “Lord, save us, we are about to perish!”

It says this:

Note that in German it is HERR (all caps), meaning LORD
Same in Latin, all caps, meaning LORD
In greek, Kurie, without the "ho", meaning, also, LORD

But in Hebrew, WOW! "Elohim", meaning God!

The apostles, according to J6, called Jesus, right in front of them, God!