Posts by NotFormer

30

Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

by NotFormer in

does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

NotFormer

joe134cd, that's a good thing to point out. One problem is: from what we've seen over the years that the leadership seem to be very naive and foolish. An argument against the outside consultant theory might be that the echo chamber environment of Bethel might never allow the thought to be entertained: "We could do with a fresh set of eyes to look at this". They believe that they are Jehovah's channel and his direction, as decided by them, is sufficient.

But the other side of the coin is that we outsiders see that they could do with that fresh set of eyes, and therefore we assume that they may be wise enough to engage them. Vienne may be right; it could be wishful thinking on our part.

It doesn't change the fact that the current state of affairs within the Jehovah's Witnesses is a dog's breakfast, and they need all the help they can get to right the ship.

30

Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

by NotFormer in

does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

NotFormer

"I'm educating a simpleton. Alas"

Enough with the insults, dude.

I used one poorly worded sentence. I have been led to believe by previous posts that the outside consultants were an established fact. I see now that such is not the case. Does learning from mistakes make a person a simpleton?

I agree that I indulged in faulty logic trying to stop my original questions and thoughts from being derailed. I retract the original assertion based on new information and advice. I'm sorry I got a faulty "fact" mixed up in my original premise.

30

Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

by NotFormer in

does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

NotFormer

I wrote it as fact, because I believe it to be fact, based on the educated guesses, i.e. speculation, of many here. IMO, if you like, it's a fact, just as in your unbacked-by-facts opinion, it isn't. You say yourself, you've seen no evidence. That doesn't mean that the outside consultations aren't happening. Absence of proof isn't proof of absence.

The questions raised in the first post still stand.

30

Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

by NotFormer in

does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

NotFormer

Nice shilling for the Borg, Vienne. I only mentioned that as part of some of the current speculation about the WTs direction. I even used the word "speculation" in the body of my post. We can't know what they're doing in secret, so we can only speculate.

Now, can we get back to actually discussing the points I raised?

slimboyfat, given your posts demonstrating that attrition is happening across the board in Christian denominations, do you think that the WT could filter out that background noise from their statistics, and figure out what policies of their own might contribute to the decline which is obviously concerning them enough for them to be changing rules?

30

Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

by NotFormer in

does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

NotFormer

Does the WT have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically. Or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?

I ask the question because I'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.

In previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more. There are more exes than current members now and there is support for those who flee. Unlike Logan's Run, Sanctuary does exist outside the WT city (or "Ark", if you prefer). So, the tighter they squeeze in trying to crack down on dissent, the more people they squeeze out. The speculation has been that they have been slightly NERFing the disfellowshipping practices because this is beginning to become apparent to the management.

So is this correlation showing up in whatever statistics they keep?

37

They Came To The Door!

by NotFormer in

jw
friends

going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.

"so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?

them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".

NotFormer

Gordon, you have an enormous set of cojones! 😱 I could never do that!

I remember a bit more of the conversation. About the Lord's supper, I quoted Jesus ' command "This do in remembrance of me". The bloke said "And who was he talking to?" That's when I said what I said above. He made a beeline for the gate and left his wife holding the bag. The remaining dribs and drabs of conversation were with her.

So, yes, they are not the confident debaters they once were, in my recent experience.

19

Does The WT Keep Files On ExJW Activists?

by NotFormer in

it occurred to me that the wt, if they can identify the activists that are currently campaigning against them, would have a lot of ability to compile detailed dossiers on them.

once identified, the elders of the appropriate congregation could be asked to forward copies of all their membership details held locally.. would they do that, and do such dossiers exist?.

(there are probably data collection rules governing such things in a lot of countries, but by no stretch of the imagination could the wt be considered a good corporate citizen).

NotFormer

It occurred to me that the WT, if they can identify the activists that are currently campaigning against them, would have a lot of ability to compile detailed dossiers on them. Once identified, the elders of the appropriate congregation could be asked to forward copies of all their membership details held locally.

Would they do that, and do such dossiers exist?

(There are probably data collection rules governing such things in a lot of countries, but by no stretch of the imagination could the WT be considered a good corporate citizen)

3

NPCs at the Kingdom Hall

by Simon in

jw
friends

in case you're unfamiliar with the acronym, an npc is a "non playable character" in a game.

typically, they are kind of a placeholder that do set things rather than being controlled by another player or any kind of ai to vary what they do.

they just follow a script.

NotFormer

"They could be like NPCs, in that you always knew where to find them (and how to get them to react)"

You could tell what a Baggins would say on any question without the bother of asking him

37

They Came To The Door!

by NotFormer in

jw
friends

going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.

"so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?

them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".

NotFormer

nowwhat?, yes 20 or 30 years ago, you could have a robust and, dare I say it, fun conversation with JWs at the door. As you say, those days seem to be long gone.

TonusOH, it's probably better if they don't. When I'm in the right frame of mind, I can be perfectly charming and engaging as a conversationalist. But I'm not always in that frame of mind. They've been around twice since our move, and neither of those times was right for me to be good company.

It's a little sad; they used to know what they believed and would defend it vigorously. It's hard to blame the R&F, the GB keeps changing everything so rapidly that it's hard to keep up with the belief du jour, I guess. 🙄

37

They Came To The Door!

by NotFormer in

jw
friends

going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.

"so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?

them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".

NotFormer

Going door to door with their "memorial" invitation. "So you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?" says I.

Them: "We can explain who is to partake".

Me: "All Jesus' followers". (I quote John 20:31) "All who believe in Jesus are his brothers".

Them: "It's been nice talking to you! Bye!"

Me: Bye, bye!

That's a condensed version of the conversation. The lady commented that I seem to know a lot about them. I commented that I've known a JW or two over the years, but I'm not what she'd call an apostate; I've never even set foot in the door of a Kingdom Hall.

But I do seem to recall that outsiders who are vigorous enough opposers are tarred with the same brush as "apostates". Perhaps word will circulate not to visit me anymore. (Although that may constitute a breach of some data protection/privacy Act?)

Anyway, I was arguably nicer this time, although I still wasn't in a perfect space for such a conversation.

Hopefully Vidiot approves... 😏