going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.
"so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?
them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".
Okay, thanks for clearing that up, everybody!
What is the figure now for partakers? I'm guessing that very few of them were alive and baptised before 1935 (is that the cut off year?) Is there now some special dispensation or new understanding about who can partake. I seem to remember something about those who are convinced that they are part of the 144,000 being allowed to partake. How does that work?
https://peticaopublica.com.br/pview.aspx?pi=br137007.
petition against ostracism practiced by jehovah's witnesses.
public petition: against ostracism practiced by jehovah's witnesses.
"... if any man that is called a brother..."
This is talking about adult men, not minor children who have been pressured into baptism.
one theory why tony was booted out was because he was a stickler for not changing the shunning doctrine.
he actually said the words we will never ever change it.. they are slowly deleting all of tony’s videos and now losing court cases and losing government hand outs in places like norway.. it’s looking very likely they will release new light on shunning policy after losing this latest one in norway.. .
what are the odds they coincidentally get new light from jehovah and lighten up their shunning policy ?.
We're talking about minor children, for the most part. As some have pointed out, Jesus was baptised when he was 30, yet minor children are pressured into entering a contract with the WBTS, CCJWs, whatever, which if they are arbitrarily determined to have breached in any way, they are shunned. Until recently, even by immediate family. That's child abuse.
hi, i was df'd in jan 09. have not been in touch much with the jws apart from a few memorials i went to.. what with all the online presence they have nowadays, it just feels like a totally different religion.
i have seen them with their tablets and phones at the hall, hardly any physical bibles or books at all, makes me think how ai (or the borg) could so easily change words and phrasing in the bible to suit them without making a big deal of it, like 'a new light' talk or wt article.
doctrinally has much changed since 2009?.
slimboyfat, ah, thanks for clearing that up. To be honest, I would have been surprised if my original version of it had been correct. It allows too much wiggle room against them. Particularly in the "which was God's earthly organisation before Russell formed the WBTS?" question.
hi, i was df'd in jan 09. have not been in touch much with the jws apart from a few memorials i went to.. what with all the online presence they have nowadays, it just feels like a totally different religion.
i have seen them with their tablets and phones at the hall, hardly any physical bibles or books at all, makes me think how ai (or the borg) could so easily change words and phrasing in the bible to suit them without making a big deal of it, like 'a new light' talk or wt article.
doctrinally has much changed since 2009?.
slimboyfat, when I first read your reference to Zenobia I was totally confused. I get that the main irony is the gender bending. I'd never heard of her or that she was even seriously held to have been a candidate for King of the South. Even that is confused: Syria is north of Israel/Judah/Judea.
hi, i was df'd in jan 09. have not been in touch much with the jws apart from a few memorials i went to.. what with all the online presence they have nowadays, it just feels like a totally different religion.
i have seen them with their tablets and phones at the hall, hardly any physical bibles or books at all, makes me think how ai (or the borg) could so easily change words and phrasing in the bible to suit them without making a big deal of it, like 'a new light' talk or wt article.
doctrinally has much changed since 2009?.
Earnest, isn't there a platitude along the lines of "Jehovah has always had an organisation"? Doesn't that fly in the face of their reason for dropping Zenobia and others from prophetic consideration? Or does that underlying reason basically negate that platitude (using that term for want of a better one)?
Does the phrase exist in the official literature in some form?
hi, i was df'd in jan 09. have not been in touch much with the jws apart from a few memorials i went to.. what with all the online presence they have nowadays, it just feels like a totally different religion.
i have seen them with their tablets and phones at the hall, hardly any physical bibles or books at all, makes me think how ai (or the borg) could so easily change words and phrasing in the bible to suit them without making a big deal of it, like 'a new light' talk or wt article.
doctrinally has much changed since 2009?.
Earnest , thanks again! I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of end-times prophecy and apocalyptic writings; I just want to understand the previous WT position on this point. I had a quick leaf through some of the Daniel book. Are they double dipping on the King of the North/King of the South prophecy, giving it multiple fulfilments?
slimboyfat, I guess you are being somewhat flippant bringing up that change, but how major was that understanding in the average JW's belief system? Would anyone have noticed the change? You obviously did. Would the new light have been the subject of watercooler conversations by JWs?
going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.
"so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?
them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".
Riley, you've pointed out something that has raised (or theoretically raised) its ugly head since the changes in 2012: who exactly is supposed to/allowed to partake?
My understanding was that the FDS was a class, identical with the 144,000. They were known as the anointed? And only the annointed could partake?
With the change, are the 144,000 still annointed?
Can only the GB partake now? I'm not being silly or facetious; I'm genuinely confused!
Also, I've read on another thread that the FDS designation is very specific: that the FDS only exists as an entity at a GB meeting in the presence of "holy spirit". Is that correct? If so, can the GB only partake if they are in a properly convened GB meeting?
Hopefully someone here has a handle on all this; on this subject, I'm hopelessly lost!
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/511603/abuse-in-care-inquiry-jehovah-s-witness-church-appeals-dismissal-of-bid-for-exclusion .
the jehovah's witness church is appealing the high court's dismissal of its legal bid to get out of being part of the abuse in care inquiry.. the high court in wellington dismissed its application for a judicial review in october after a three-year behind-the-scenes battle between the church and the inquiry.. a hearing is set for 21 march in the court of appeal in wellington.. in a letter to survivors today, the inquiry said it could not comment further as the matter was before the court, but it would have wellbeing support available at the hearing for survivors who attend.. the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses australasia said it considered the high court judgment "contained errors of law which is seeks to challenge".. "given the matter is again active litigation, it is not appropriate for ccjwa to disclose anything further at this point," it said in a statement.. the church sought a judicial review to be exempt from the inquiry, arguing it was beyond the inquiry's scope because it did not run institutions that cared for children or vulnerable people.. in her judgment, justice ellis said the jehovah's witness church did not have a "fundamental right to avoid scrutiny".. the church's claim that its policies prevented elders - who are like ministers - from spending time alone with children, was also thrown out by ellis, who said evidence provided to the inquiry, and from overseas, showed otherwise.. the inquiry's scope was expanded to include faith-based institutions in november 2018 after lobbying from religious groups and survivors.
the jehovah's witness faith is the only group to oppose being involved, culminating in its application for a judicial review in may 2023..
An interesting list of charges against the WT. Is this related to the abuse in care inquiry or something different?
"Legal entity switching and phoenixing" is an interesting one. The WT is known to have a multitude of corporate faces and masks to hide behind.
As for modern slavery, I guess that we all have an idea of what is being said here. How do you prove that to government investigators?
Apart from CSA and the shunning of children, the above seems like a wishlist of grievances that someone wants the WT hit over the head with.
Is the government entity in charge of charities in NZ having an investigation of its own?
one theory why tony was booted out was because he was a stickler for not changing the shunning doctrine.
he actually said the words we will never ever change it.. they are slowly deleting all of tony’s videos and now losing court cases and losing government hand outs in places like norway.. it’s looking very likely they will release new light on shunning policy after losing this latest one in norway.. .
what are the odds they coincidentally get new light from jehovah and lighten up their shunning policy ?.
Vidiot, do you think that even PIMI parents might also discourage it, if they're forward thinking enough and have crunched the numbers on what might happen?
I imagine even PIMIs have grey areas and limits on their loyalty to the organisation.
