i am an active jw and was raised as one.
i have been watching the site for a while and thought it could benefit from the opinions of someone who is happily a member of the jw's.
i will not get into any argumets that lead to nothing except name calling, and will not talk with anyone who is just plain mean (plenty of them in here).
Scumgrief,
I love your handle, really do. I am still a Witness, although not as happy as I used to be. Most of the people on this board are well-mannered, I can assure you. Even when they kick you in the butt, they have a heart to give you a hand when you're down.
I'll be happy to read your contributions to the board.
I won't say "agape", nor should you ever.
pc
with their chronology in tatters, jehovah's witnesses have taken to preaching about their favorite subject: themselves.
i was taken to task when i made this suggestion in a thread not too long ago, but the october km furnishes abundant evidence in its list of available videocasette.. (as an aside, it seems that the society no longer objects to using the television as a medium to spread its message, now that technology's given it a way to make the viewer pay for tapes, rather than having to spend money on paid programming).. notice the titles: .
``united by divine teaching''.
Dan,
Sounds like you didn't read my post. I spoke about reading between the lines of Acts. Don't serve me the drivel about aluminium and dinosaurs on Venus. If you can read (and there are lots of post where I have made my views clear), I don't hold any brief for the WTS. Go back to my post above. The argument is self-evident.
with their chronology in tatters, jehovah's witnesses have taken to preaching about their favorite subject: themselves.
i was taken to task when i made this suggestion in a thread not too long ago, but the october km furnishes abundant evidence in its list of available videocasette.. (as an aside, it seems that the society no longer objects to using the television as a medium to spread its message, now that technology's given it a way to make the viewer pay for tapes, rather than having to spend money on paid programming).. notice the titles: .
``united by divine teaching''.
There's nothing wrong in blowing your own trumpet; every religion does it all the time. There's nothing wrong in WTS depicting themselves as the best there could ever be. It may repulse your taste buds and sense of modesty. If that's the case, don't watch any of the videos. I long stopped attending meetings where the videos are shown or TMS discussions when every silly detail of the video is discussed. I just don't think it's any of the WTS' fault that they want to show to the world that they have everything and the world nothing. Most self-promotionals go that way and one would be stupid to buy it all.
The comparison with Acts of the Apostles: there is a lot of self-promotion of "the Way"; you only need to read between the lines as you get along. You may say the adherents of what was yet to be defined as Christianity were promoting Jesus, and I would agree with you. But they were also promoting their conception of who they were and what they believed, and showing it up to be the best. If we go even further back in time (the Old Testament), Isreal was a "chosen nation" that stood head and shoulder above all the others (or so they proclaimed, Bible book after Bible book).
Religious fanaticism, nationalism, inordinate personal pride, all these things are driven by the same ingredients. They make the world a worse place for all of us, but that won't make religious bigots stop blowing their own little trumpet. It's more like brand trumpeting - mine's the best, yours is the least. The WTS is caught in the same process. The WTS is part of the world and cannot run its empire without borrowing that very vain and human style of chest-thumping pride.
with their chronology in tatters, jehovah's witnesses have taken to preaching about their favorite subject: themselves.
i was taken to task when i made this suggestion in a thread not too long ago, but the october km furnishes abundant evidence in its list of available videocasette.. (as an aside, it seems that the society no longer objects to using the television as a medium to spread its message, now that technology's given it a way to make the viewer pay for tapes, rather than having to spend money on paid programming).. notice the titles: .
``united by divine teaching''.
So they should go make tapes about the Mormons and Islamic Jihad?
for many ex-jehovahs witnesses there is a disconnection between what we wish we could be doing in terms of making pronounced change in the ideological structure of the watch tower society or the dissolution of it, and what we actually find ourselves doing.
at some level we sense there are incredible potentials just waiting to be realized in the collective struggle to bring down the tower not just because it is fundamentally wrong and harmful to millions of lives but also for the changes it will make in our lives.
over the years though, i think a lot of us kind of feel that we are stumbling around in the dark trying one thing or another without anything serving as catalyst that starts an energetic chain reaction.. in a way, it reminds me of a phenomenon i learned back in my college days about termites.
It's all wishful thinking. Luther's breaking away from Roman Catholicism did not bring down the Catholic Church. People leaving the WTS will not make the WTS any less attractive to those who want to stay. If destroying the WTS is your agenda, you may as well own up that you've failed and will continue to fail. The WTS will survive even if it is severely weakened. As you well know, people associate with a religion or practice a faith for a myriad number of reasons. Your reason for leaving may be some other person's reason for staying.
Forget about coordination among ex-Witnesses. It will never happen. Your best bet is to get on with your life, "help" those who welcome your advice individually. Given the time most ex-Witnesses spend discussing witness-related issues, nit-picking WT publications, writing critiques on them, etc., they show they never really left the Watch Tower. They may believe they have a noble cause for putting themselves through that grind, but the bottomline is that most seem to want and need the WT even though they claim to be out, almost like a drug addict needs a regular fix. For whatever cause and albeit all proclamations to the contrary, most ex-Witnesses are more WT slaves now than they ever were when they were regulars at the KH/knocked on doors every weekend.
You battle, if indeed you initiate one, is doomed.
pc
*** g74 11/8 ***9 is this the time to have children?there has always been a positive attitude about childbearing.
*** g74 11/8 10 is this the time to have children?
what does imminent mean?
JT,
Too many complicated circumstances. I have checked out - mentally - but I haven't left. In some thread last week where you and I commented, I wrote a little bit on my current status. But I feel like you're a close friend I've known for years, well down the road from H2O when it was the board to read and participate in.
Regards to you and your wife.
pc
*** g74 11/8 ***9 is this the time to have children?there has always been a positive attitude about childbearing.
*** g74 11/8 10 is this the time to have children?
what does imminent mean?
JT (formerly known as "1"),
In Africa we read those articles and laughed. Not having children because of the grand tribulation approaching!!! We looked at the missionaries, COs, DOs, all childless, as a curiosity. Of course, like good old JWs that we were (hey! I'm still one, by the way),it was again "food at the proper time", even if indigestible. When I got married, we decided we were going have kids come grand or little tribulation, and didn't we go for it!! Man now writing has four of 'em.
And man, don't make your "planning to ..." phase too long though. I remember you saying so two/three years ago (time you started college or something). I'm glad you're still looking ahead....
pc
here is my situation: my fiance is now 27 years old.
he was raised as a jw from the age of 2 through 18. at that time, his whole family left the "truth" except for his older brother who had already married another woman from the faith.
for the past 9 years, he has been living his life to the fullest, but still loving god, praying often and he is a truly honest and moral person.
Concerned,
I am sorry indeed for misinterpreting your intentions. I know this must be a very sensitive subject to you, and I want to apologize for being rather callous in my remarks.
You've received a lot of good and sensible suggestions, even offer to help. I wish you the very best in untying this knotty issue.
pc
here is my situation: my fiance is now 27 years old.
he was raised as a jw from the age of 2 through 18. at that time, his whole family left the "truth" except for his older brother who had already married another woman from the faith.
for the past 9 years, he has been living his life to the fullest, but still loving god, praying often and he is a truly honest and moral person.
Concerned Fiance's post strikes me as totally insincere (note her almost faultless quote of the scriptures). Her first post, it so happens that it takes on an issue that has been discussed repeatedly on this board over the past twelve days. If she's been lurking, she would have read it all by now and would not need anyone's advice.
It sounds too much like a clever trick by someone to re-stir the pot.
from todays's newspaper we read.... bush's order targets bin laden's al-qaeda network and includes a list of 27 organizations and individuals identified as front groups that raise money to support his international terrorist network.
he conceded most of those on the list, including known terrorists and non-profit organizations, operate outside the u.s. .
"they often times use nice-sounding, non-governmental organizations as fronts for their activities.
Bx,
You're becoming delusional again!!!! You're still locked in the WTS mode of making predictions. So the Government is going to hit hard on the Watchtower - in what way pray thee?
- freezing WT assets after finding the Org. is linked with Osama Bin Laden?
- ramming Witnesses into prison?
- banning their door to door preaching?
- turning Brooklyn bethel and Patterson into arm producing/storage facilities?
What you fail to realize is that the WTBTS has for decades preached the scenario of persecution. None of that would surprise the rank and file. They'll simply find solace in suffering and further "proof" that they're the true religion after all.
Wake up, Brother. The WT will go under more as a result of its own internal contradictions than of a hammer from the authorities.
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