Don't get me wrong, I was a fence-sitter for decades. Including 19 years when I was disfellowshipped out of the religion/snare/racket and felt enough freedom to do some research.

Ray Franz's book was not enough to completely unlock my mind. It only deepened the doubts about what JWs were selling.

But I was still mind trapped. If religion came up during that time I always pointed people towards JW's as being "The True Religion" even as I told them they should not look at me, I was a bad example of a witness, but one day I was going back.

I was in a mind loop for years over 4 things:

1. Jehovah's witnesses stand on neutrality and not going to war.

2. Jehovah's witnesses preaching work, reaching the ENTIRE inhabited earth.

3. They don't take money. The message is offered freely. They only accept contributions.

4. The "Where else would I go" canard I mentioned earlier.

I know now that all 4 of those above things were based on lies or at the very least many shades of grey.

So yes, as said before, I dumped the religion but not the faith in the Bible's promise.

You are interesting to me because you are still a member in good standing, but secretly don't believe a word of it.

Can I ask? Are you a publisher, pioneer, MS, or Elder? If you hold a "position of responsibility" (as they like to call it) how do you square that with your inner beliefs?

Are you still in because of family and friends? I can certainly relate to that.

I pioneered briefly when I was a teen. That was back in the JW roll-up to 1975. My parents convinced me to quit high school at 16 to pioneer. Within 2 weeks I absolutely hated it. I ended up going back and finishing high school.

I was never a servant or an Elder. I came close a couple of times to Ministerial Servant (the Eders approached me) but immediately both times pulled back on meeting attendance and service hours because I wanted no part of it. I NEVER wanted to sit in judgement of others, even from a young age. Why would anyone willingly have that hanging over their heads, it they take the appointment as an Elder or MS as seriously as they should? It was not for me.

I'm meandering a bit here.

But in summary, yes, I still cling to the Bible. And yes, I might be wrong in doing so.

Are you familiar with Pascal's wager?

Cheers

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by stephenlettclownface in

jw
friends

i apologize if this post ends up in the wrong place.

i have been a lurker here for several years.

i thoroughly enjoy this site, have for years, and read something or another on this site many times a week.

stephenlettclownface

@peacefulpete:

Thank you

Cheers

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by stephenlettclownface in

jw
friends

i apologize if this post ends up in the wrong place.

i have been a lurker here for several years.

i thoroughly enjoy this site, have for years, and read something or another on this site many times a week.

stephenlettclownface

@stan livedeath

I meant that it changes your world view, even in little ways.

For me big ways too.

Cheers

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by stephenlettclownface in

jw
friends

i apologize if this post ends up in the wrong place.

i have been a lurker here for several years.

i thoroughly enjoy this site, have for years, and read something or another on this site many times a week.

stephenlettclownface

@nicolaou:

HA!

Thanks for the welcome! I'm the grumpy and crazy old uncle in my family too! (Except I'm not for those who care to get to know me).

Most stay clear because of the urban legends spewed out by my highly dysfunctional (and up to their eyeballs immersion in all things JW) parents and siblings.

A couple of my nieces and 1 of my nephews (who see through all the bullshit) are close to me, however.

Cheers

43

VERY NEW AT THIS BUT LOST IN SPACE

by stephenlettclownface in

jw
friends

i apologize if this post ends up in the wrong place.

i have been a lurker here for several years.

i thoroughly enjoy this site, have for years, and read something or another on this site many times a week.

stephenlettclownface

@stan livedeath:

Sorry for missing your post and not responding sooner.

Being married to a Filipina is a paradigm changing circumstance. No?

Cheers

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by stephenlettclownface in

jw
friends

i apologize if this post ends up in the wrong place.

i have been a lurker here for several years.

i thoroughly enjoy this site, have for years, and read something or another on this site many times a week.

stephenlettclownface

@jehovaxx

"You can have unconditional love for family members but if they turn out to be involved in really evil criminal activities then you surely would disown them and cut them off unless they were really sorry."

But we've all seen criminal murder trials where the victim's family publicly state that they forgive the killer, haven't we? Even when the killer expresses no remorse.

Are these people delusional or misled?

For me, I am in awe of them.

Love is unconditional. (Though I will agree that it is much easier to say that than to practice it.)

I can say that when I spotted a Disfellowshipped person walking into a Kingdom Hall, I would TRY to catch their eye and give them a smile and a nod. One small bit of rebellion that I was doing YEARs before it became ok to do so.

How ridiculous that until very recently JW's were not allowed to show even that small amount of courtesy to another human being.

But they still won't talk to them. Really talk.

Not one of us is better than another. We cannot rightfully even judge Hitler.

Of course, he let his actions speak for him, so.... But we don't get to be the hangmen. We just don't.

So no, I don't believe in conditional love. There is only one kind of love, and that is UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.

The fact that it is so hard to practice and we all fail at it daily is due to our own imperfections.

Jesus gave us an example to follow, knowing full well it would be a struggle, but the reward would be great.

Cheers

43

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by stephenlettclownface in

jw
friends

i apologize if this post ends up in the wrong place.

i have been a lurker here for several years.

i thoroughly enjoy this site, have for years, and read something or another on this site many times a week.

stephenlettclownface

@TonusOH:

(posts TonusOH's entire message about "Brotherhood" here)

Spot on.

Cheers

43

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by stephenlettclownface in

jw
friends

i apologize if this post ends up in the wrong place.

i have been a lurker here for several years.

i thoroughly enjoy this site, have for years, and read something or another on this site many times a week.

stephenlettclownface

@jehovaxx:

In my OP I said that I'm fascinated by people like yourself who rejected JW teachings and then decided not only was the religion false, but the Bible and the stories of Jesus and God are too. (Or might be).

That is a bridge too far for me, like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

From an early age I have wanted to know as much as possible about God and how to serve him in the best way.

When I was 6-7 years old and my family was newly JW the book that was studied at the weekly Book Study (back then those meetings were held in private homes) was "Babylon the Great Has Fallen! God's Kingdom Rules!".

For those of you who remember it, that book seemed to be an encyclopedia of all answers to Bible Prophecy. It was very thorough, yet very wrong.

Looking back, this book was a very boring slog, especially for a child. The whole thing seems like an LSD trip by old Freddy Franz. And notably, just a few years later they of course phased it out for whatever "New Light" that came into FF's fevered brain.

But when I was little, I lapped up that book. I was from the beginning absolutely consumed with learning about world history. (Still am). So learning about past world powers and Daniel's prophecies and the meaning of the Book of Revelation were fascinating to me.

I believe only a few things were right in JW teachings, and where they really start going off the rails is especially their interpretations of Daniel and the Book of Revelation.

One thing that caught my attention early on was their teaching that the Harlot of Babylon is likened to the churches of Christendom, whoring themselves out to the world government leaders. JW's teach that in the end times God will destroy this "Whore of Babylon". If it is an accurate interpretation, I can't wait to see it.

Old Joey Rutherford loved to send his JW converts around the city streets wearing sandwich boards stating "Religion IS A SNARE AND RACKET". I believe he was absolutely right about this teaching. Only he should have included his own little Religion/Racket/Company.

Religions are oppressive to people and direct them away from actually serving God. In ways great and small.

JWs are the same. I believe they are completely mislead, in things great and small, and worse, that they actually lead people AWAY from simple true worship.

Jesus did not put the type of burdens on people that the Watchtower does. This rankled me even when I was young. Why all these rules and regulations just like the Mosaic law code? I thought Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic law?

Then why were their rules and regs in the JWs about such things as tattoos and beards?

And why do we always have to dress to the nines when attending meetings or field service? Almost no other modern day churches do this, seems odd.

Watchtower told us we had dress codes for these things because that is how TRUE CHRISTIANS lived. Really? So in the First Century all of those poor people living hand to mouth had several changes of clothes? Including "High End" garments only used when they met together or went preaching?

All these types of teachings (and more) nibble at a young child and teenager's minds, even if they are trapped in physically and mentally. I think every JW has doubts. They mostly just push them back down.

Sorry. I took a long way around the horn to answer your question.

Yes I still believe in the Bible and God and I do believe in the promise of God's kingdom.

And I believe the Bible has a VERY simple message. For me, it breaks down to: Follow in the footsteps of Jesus. He will lead you to God.

I can go into more detail about what that means to me personally if you are interested to know.

But I will NEVER join an organized religion again.

Lastly @Jehovaxx I want to say something that you may have pondered. I fully recognize that 3/4 of the Earth's population doesn't know the Bible or Jesus.

That was another of my inner disagreements with JW teachings. I DO NOT BELIEVE that a loving God will wipe out 99.999% of all humans to save some tiny little cult.

I do not know or understand all of God's plans for his Kingdom. But I do know that the Bible and Jesus spoke of people being judged by their heart condition.

I have been fortunate enough to travel a lot. I have met people from all over the world.

One of the lucky things about living in the USA is that there are people here from everywhere. All languages, cultures, and ethnicities.

And I cannot help to see that the overwhelming majority of people are good, or try to be.

Also, proven science and developing science blow JW theory of Creation out the window, no question. I am not concerned about that, someday we may all have common knowledge about the origins of the universe and the origins of us, but that may not come in my lifetime or ever. It will be revealed when it is revealed.

So yes, I have thrown out my religion but not my faith.

I think many who want out of JW's but find it hard to do so are stuck on the old Watchtower canard:

"Where else would you go?".

A BLATENT misrepresentation of scripture.

That's all I got for now.

Cheers

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by stephenlettclownface in

jw
friends

i apologize if this post ends up in the wrong place.

i have been a lurker here for several years.

i thoroughly enjoy this site, have for years, and read something or another on this site many times a week.

stephenlettclownface

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"1963 Resolution Condemning the United Nations"

Thanks for this. I'll look it over.

Can anyone tell me how to adjust font size?

Cheers