Posts by mP

778

IS GOD REAL? HOW DO YOU KNOW?

by still thinking in

jw
friends

this is an honest question on my part.

someone on this board asked me 'how do you know' a while ago and i really struggled with it.

in fact, it was a turning point for me.

where does it say in the bible god wants equal justice for all ? reply with quoted scriptures. god however gave plenty of genocide orders for non jews. did he ever help or mention a nice thing about a non jew in the bible ? scriptures please. you cant tell me jesus died for all of because he himself said he only came for the jews.

lets be honest with africa, those poor barstards never have any luck, they live in a desert,with little water, next too no food, have large families and never have enough food. im sorry they are skinny and dying but no one can honestly say godcares for them. god helps nobody. we in western countries just hapoen to have been born in better places.

48

Memorial - Why do i keep going?

by maisha in

every year i attend, missing only 5 in 50 years.. i do not attend meetings nor active in anyway, my family shun me,(all devote believers) but i do feel drawn to attend each year.

i am out for sure, but i no longer have faith, or a belief in any religous body as being approved by god.. i am so screwed up now i not sure if i believe in a creator!, let alone who or what that may be.. i was born into the truth, married into the truth and my ex is devote.. i could never return to the cult now seeing it for what it is.. i served, donated, slaved for years happy to do so as has all my family.. i went out of my way to get df, sort of a wanting to die act, of rejecting the society.. i used to sit in a movie in my youth and think, wow i am so lucky, all these people are going to die and i will live forever.. even just typing this gives release to my emotions,, lol,,, yea i have many emotions,,, many regrets, basically the organisation i followed and the instructions destroyed my life in every possible way.. the power plays that i witnessed within are what first woke me up,,,at first i let it go, forgiving those involved as brothers do.

but again and again power and position is and was the thing to have, you got the power you got everything.

mP

@etna

Jesus also said to find a man carrying a pitcher of water when preparing the last supper meal. This same man will have a room prepared.

778

IS GOD REAL? HOW DO YOU KNOW?

by still thinking in

jw
friends

this is an honest question on my part.

someone on this board asked me 'how do you know' a while ago and i really struggled with it.

in fact, it was a turning point for me.

mP

The simplest way to disprove that God answers prayers is to ask then why would he listen to a well to do westerner, and completely ignore a continent of starving Africans? Are we to believe that God gives priority to rich westerners who want more and completely ignores dying Africans who probably pray many times more because they are hungry and almost dead ?

51

did the apostle paul really know jesus ?

by mP in

i made a statement to tec, that paul did not know jesus.

in fact i challenge anyone to show from his writings, that he knew about the christ presented in the gospels.

i believe it is fair to say the lord or christ of paul is only mentioned as a spirit being who was ressurrected for us.

mP

LEOLAIA

Paul quoting sayings of Jesus is only "proof" of literary dependence on our gospels if these were the only possible sources of these sayings potentially available to Paul.

MP
While your observation is very true, Paul fails to quote in his writings any event, person or location of Jesus ministry. If we record all the details that Paul gives, the only thing we learn is that Jesus is our savior and died for our sins. It really doesnt matter if Paul knew the gospels that are available to us today. Given Paul supposedly travelled to Jerusalem only years after jesus ministry there, he should have at the very least run into a few eye witnesses and repeated their stories to impress his readers. However he never attempts this in any way.

Most of your other quotations are many centuries old and at best can be considered traditions.

LEOLAIA

The similarity between this passage and the Last Supper institution passage in the synoptic gospels is very striking; the wording is particularly close with Luke 22 .

MP

Many religious traditions in the ancient world had a last supper tradition. Even the Jews themselves had something similar in the passover. In the passover we have a saviour lamb and a cross or tau during easter in Exodus 12. The lamb of the passover saved the jews from the angel that passed over and killed the first born of the land of egypt. The followers of Mithra etc also have similar stories.

How do we really know Paul was not talking about another celebration such as the Mithra one ?

Im not sure why you start your commentary on the gospels i cant quite see the relation to understanding Paul. The book of Acts is broken, it tells us contradictory facts about many things on Paul, such as the story of his trip to Damacus and his revelation with Jesus.

132

The Bible and Genetics

by sabastious in

i recently read in discover magazine that scientists have found a way to turn on and off memory cells in our brain.

they say that this is good news for people with post traumatic stress disorder, which i was diagnosed with a few years ago.

this, to me, brings up the ethical question of what did the traumatic events in my life, and the lives of others, add to society as a whole?

mP

Hiho

SAB

Hello, mP. I do not believe that snakes represent the Devil across the board. However within the Biblical framework snakes represent the devil. This is always the case. You keep asking for scriptures when I do not believe the Bible contains scriptures. It contains stories and old laws, no scriptures. The Bible IS Scripture, but that is another topic altogether. What you call a contaminante is actually just a misapplication of the Bible Document in foreign lands. Snakes are not bad inside or outside of literature, I cannot stress this enough. Only within the Biblical Framework are snakes considered the Devil.

Revelation 12 - 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Revelation 20 - 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent , who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

MP

Firstly Genesis refers to a literal snake, while the two revelation scriptures are metaphysical. An actual snake creature cannot also be a dragon.

The main reason that you are wrong is because the Book of Revelation is not a book of prophecy it is simply a book that contains the rantings of an angry Jew who sees Nero as a great opponent or satan of his fellow jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero

The Sibylline Oracles, Book 5 and 8, written in the 2nd century, speak of Nero returning and bringing destruction. [191] Within Christian communities, these writings, along with others, [192] fueled the belief that Nero would return as the Antichrist. In 310, Lactantius wrote that Nero suddenly disappeared, and even the burial-place of that noxious wild beast was nowhere to be seen. This has led some persons of extravagant imagination to suppose that, having been conveyed to a distant region, he is still reserved alive; and to him they apply the Sibylline verses. [182]

In 422, Augustine of Hippo wrote about 2 Thessalonians 2:1–11, where he believed Paul mentioned the coming of the Antichrist. Though he rejects the theory, Augustine mentions that many Christians believed that Nero was the Antichrist or would return as the Antichrist. He wrote, so that in saying, "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work," [193] he alluded to Nero, whose deeds already seemed to be as the deeds of Antichrist. [161]

Some modern biblical scholars [194] [195] such as Delbert Hillers (Johns Hopkins University) of the American Schools of Oriental Research and the editors of the Oxford & Harper Collins Study Bibles, contend that the number 666 in the Book of Revelation is a code for Nero, [196] a view that is also supported in Roman Catholic Biblical commentaries. [197] [198]

Lastly the text that you show does not include the definitive article "the" which would be necessary if it meant the one and only opponent of God. Rather it says devil which means "opponent" or satan which also means "opponent". Translators should have translated and replaced the words devil and satan with opponent. If the text is referring to a "person" or "angel" it doesnt make sense to say

Revelation 20 - 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Fred, or Fred, and bound him for a thousand years.

where Fred is the Satan the devil.

778

IS GOD REAL? HOW DO YOU KNOW?

by still thinking in

jw
friends

this is an honest question on my part.

someone on this board asked me 'how do you know' a while ago and i really struggled with it.

in fact, it was a turning point for me.

mP

SAB

Pharaoh then summoned wise men and sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians also did the same things by their secret arts: 12 Each one threw down his staff and it became a snake

MP

How is it that the egyptian magicians also had powers to change their sticks into snakes ? Wouldnt they have more shame if their sticks remained sticks ?

37

Will Jehovah himself kill me, or will Jesus, Satan, or someone else?

by InterestedOne in

i've heard people here say jw's believe that jehovah will slaughter non-members of the jw religion when armageddon comes any day now.

does the watchtower teach that jehovah himself will do the killing, or is it delegated to someone else like jesus, satan, angels, or humans killing each other?

who is the actual killer in the picture?

mP

@billy

given there are no bears in Australia or the Pacific -then i guess, some ppl have no worries.

91

Awake! November 2011 - correct cover

by processor in

there was an error on the latest awake!

cover.

here is the correct version.. .

mP

Good ol WT, do they ever show mixed race couples in their art ?

132

The Bible and Genetics

by sabastious in

i recently read in discover magazine that scientists have found a way to turn on and off memory cells in our brain.

they say that this is good news for people with post traumatic stress disorder, which i was diagnosed with a few years ago.

this, to me, brings up the ethical question of what did the traumatic events in my life, and the lives of others, add to society as a whole?

mP

SAB

Now that the languages were separate the humans were affectively separated. They then had to write up their own systems and agree on what they called truth. The Serpent's choice to unite the creation against YHWH meant that war was upon them. Finding out which civilization is the strongest is a fools errand and costs too many resources to complete. The best way to live with a neighbor is be their ally not their enemy. However the Serpent uses the warped version of Adamic Independence to maintain contention between lands on any level possible. Rivalry is encourged and collateral is placed on the table even if that means whole cities with woman and children.

Within this brutal system YHWH does not merely stand back in horror. He chooses a warrior and marks him in a way that strikes fear in his opponents as well as offers a medical benefit. Even today the Israeli Warrior is renowned for their fierce dedication and honor. Abram was the man, and Abraham was the Age he brought forth into the world. Abram exhibited the traits needed to not only lead an army, but settle political and social disputes as well. The majority of the Children of Light were misled, so YHWH created the safe haven of the Nation of Israel.

MP

Yahweh is the god of war and destruction in the OT. He even says it many times and labels himself as Jehovah of Armies. He never says he is Jehovah the Kind and Loving God. You have absolutely no scriptural bases for showing that God was horrified by the wrongness that he wintessed in the OT. Jehovah was the God of the priests in Judea, they were selfish pric ks and wanted an exclusive franchise in the God business in Israel. They didnt want to share the temple business with others and they wanted exclusive rights to advise the king. All the actions of the righteous priests in the OT can be explained as their selfish aim to eliminate the competition so they could grab all the money!

Its as simple as that.

132

The Bible and Genetics

by sabastious in

i recently read in discover magazine that scientists have found a way to turn on and off memory cells in our brain.

they say that this is good news for people with post traumatic stress disorder, which i was diagnosed with a few years ago.

this, to me, brings up the ethical question of what did the traumatic events in my life, and the lives of others, add to society as a whole?

mP

SAB

mP: Why are you picking on snakes ? THe snake in gen 3 is not satan. Satan is not even mentioned in that chapter and i wonder if he is mentioned anywhere in Genesis itself.

SAB

See my post to JwFacts. Also the snake is a perfect allegory for more reasons than it's forked tongue. It's venom is also taken into consideration and it's slow process of which it eats it's prey alive and slowly digests it. However snakes are awesome and I got nothing against the real ones or even snake themes outside of the Bible. It's when they are projected astrally is when you should be afraid.

MP

You missed my point entirely. The only reason why you believe Snakes and their forked tongues represent lying is because you have been taught the Adam and Eve story. Visit a different culture that has not been contaminated by this story and your commentary is broken. Your reasoning is completely circular. Your comments also show that you fail to understand the role of messengers or angels in the Bible.

Snakes in the Bible are messengers of God!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraphim

A seraph (pl. seraphim; Hebrew: ????????? s?rafîm, singular ?????? saraf; Latin: seraphi[m], singular seraph[us]; Greek: σεραφε?μ) is a type of celestial or heavenly being in the Abrahamic religions.

Literally "burning ones", the word seraph is normally a synonym for serpents when used in the Hebrew Bible. A seminal passage in the Book of Isaiah (6.1-8) used the term to describe fiery six-winged beings that fly around God's throne singing "holy, holy, holy". This throne scene, with its triple invocation of holiness (a formula that came to be known as the trisagion), profoundly influenced subsequent theology, literature and art. Its influence is frequently seen in works depicting angels,heaven and apotheosis. Seraphs are mentioned as celestial beings in an influential Hellenistic work, the Book of Enoch, and the Book of Revelation. Tradition places seraphs in the fifth rank of ten in the Jewish angelic hierarchy and the highest rank in the Christian angelic hierarchy.

The snake that spoke to Eve, was a flying snake who in this case opened his big mouth. The role of snakes were originally as messengers of God and in order to perform their task of flying from heaven to earth and back, they needed wings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiery_flying_serpent

saiah 14:29: "Do not rejoice, all you of Philistia, because the rod that struck you is broken; for out of the serpent's roots will come a viper, and its offspring will be a fiery flying serpent."
Isaiah 30:6: "The burden against the beasts of the South. Through a land of trouble and anguish, from which came the lioness and the lion, the viper and the fiery flying serpent, they will carry their riches on the backs of young donkeys, and their treasures on the humps of camels, to a people who shall not profit;"

References to "fiery serpents" lacking a mention of flight can be found in several places in the Hebrew Bible.

Deuteronomy 8:15 "Who led thee through that great and terrible wilderness, wherein were fiery serpents, and scorpions, and drought, where there was no water; who brought thee forth water out of the rock of flint;"
Numbers 21:6-8 "(6) And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. (7) Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people. (8) And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live." This symbol, the Nehushtan, is similar to the ancient Greek Rod of Asklepios (frequently confused with the caduceus) and is frequently cited as an instance of the same archetype.