Posts by Wayward

6

Is it the original anointed person or their clone who will be in heaven?

by deegee in

the wt teaches that there's no part of a human being that survives the death of the body.

if the anointed do not have an immortal soul/ some immaterial part of them that survives death, then whoever will be in heaven won't be the original anointed person but their clone since once a person dies, according to wt theology, they cease to exist; so god will have to create a spirit body from nothing for that person and that created body by definition will therefore not be the original person but their clone.. so it will be a person's clone that will get to live forever in heaven and rule with christ, and not the original person.............one can now see why other religions teach the doctrine of the immortality of the soul..

Wayward

I asked my mom once what part of an anointed person went to Heaven since they died but there is no soul. She told me that it was their energy that went to Heaven. So I asked what was the difference? Energy, soul, same basic thing. Crickets. What it came down to is this was a subject Mom didn't want to think about and hoped no one else ever asked her about. Because this makes no sense when you think about it and looking for sense in JW teachings is a no-no.

Either there is a soul or there is not. If there is NOT, then the anointed aren't going to Heaven. They're dead in the ground, like all the rest of us. If there IS a soul, what's to stop the rest of us from going to Heaven?

19

What if all JWs had put off having children?

by keyser soze in

could the religion have survived?.

i know it was never forbidden, but i remember growing up, how we were encouraged to put it off until the new system, and instead focus on a career in the full time service.. can you imagine if every young jw had chosen to follow that counsel?

it's difficult to imagine the religion being sustainable without the next generation of born-ins..

Wayward

It was never forbidden as in a straight-up "Thou shalt NOT have children" but the view of having kids was portrayed in such a negative light that it might as well have been forbidden. It was before my family converted but I've heard stories from the 60s about how couples who had kids were looked down on as 'spiritually weak'.

16

Extreme rules on Dating – is this for all congregations?

by Bonnie_Clyde in

just found out that in the congregation we used to attend there are two young brothers, both are sons of elders and recently engaged to girls in neighboring congregations.

instructions are that they may not sit together at assemblies or meetings.

but get this….they can’t even ride in the same car even if their parents are also in the car.

Wayward

That's extreme. Sounds more like the Duggers than even the strictest JWs I knew.

19

We are imperfect

by HereIgo in

i can't tell you how many times i have heard this while growing up as a witness.

every time i questioned hypocrisy in the org i was told " well we are imperfect" and its was beyond annoying.

at what point does "imperfect" turn into just not christian?

Wayward

I HATED that excuse! Yes, we're all imperfect. We all screw up. BUT not all of us claim to be the faithful and discreet slave who is spirit-directed by god to make doctrine. Either god is directing you or you're a fallible human who opened your big fat mouth and put your foot in it. Can't have it both ways. Sorry, but you just can't.

41

what are your thoughts on this quote from the elders book?

by aboveusonlysky in

'in order to extend mercy, the committee must be convinced that the wrongdoer has a changed heart condition and that he has a zeal to right the wrong and is absolutely determined to avoid it in the future.'.

shepherd the flock page 91. i remember this is one of the first things that concerned me as an elder because it seemed to sound like a person is guilty until proven innocent rather than 'love believes all things', especially given the word 'convinced' appears in bold.. then in a training video one elder said something like 'unless we are convinced of repentance the shepherd the flock book says we must disfellowship'.

that was the begining of the end for me as i thought surely true christians would reason the other way round and show mercy wherever possible.. any thoughts?.

Wayward

If we're supposed to be able to go to god in prayer and ask forgiveness direct from on high, why do we need a pack of men sitting in judgment on us? Do they have the power to read hearts and minds? Nope. Do they have the power to forgive sins? Nope. Are they often corrupt, power drunk men who need JCs themselves? Yep, sometimes. So what right do they have to judge others and destroy lives?

31

JW Carts Cause Thousands to Start Studying!!!

by Drifting Away in

jw
friends

i would love to know the stats of how many hours were spent, standing by a cart, or sitting at a local town fair with jw table tent set up, compared to the number of bible studies started that led to baptism since the inception of the carts.

anyone have any idea?

if i had to guess i would say thousands of hours pent standing by a cart, and maybe less then 5 that actually got baptized.

Wayward

Don't know how many people actually even take mags and tracts from carts and booths. I saw a lady at a JW booth once pick up a mag, realize what it was and drop it like a snake bit her. She couldn't get out of there fast enough.

17

Can't think how they will respond

by Giles Gray in

i've been chatting to the jws the past couple of weeks.the last time they called they showed me a video about a scientist who claimed that she had once been an atheist, but after studying with the jws she had changed her mind and now believed in an intelligent creator.

what had convinced her was the process that activates the functioning of the lungs just after a baby has been born.after we had watched the video, the jws said that there are many people who believe that creation indicates an intelligent designer.in reply i asked them what they thought about the 'unintelligent' aspects of creation and i went into a few examples.at first they tried to write things off to imperfection due to adamic sin, but as the conversation went on they slowly realised that arguing 'imperfection' wasn't an adequate explanation for the points i was making.to cut a long story short, i ended up sending them a video via email where professor dawkins comments on an autopsy that highlights the impracticality of the laryngeal nerve in giraffes.i also sent them evidence of vestigial limbs in whales and a short article about biological atavism.in addition, i sent them an article that coincidentally was on the bbc news a few days ago about a boy in india who had a 7 inch vestigial tail removed.

here is the article i sent them:-http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3823461/the-teenager-7-inch-tail-18-year-old-finally-growth-removed-painful-sit-sleep.htmli'm really looking forward to seeing what they will come back with.

Wayward

They'll run for the hills. I can almost guarantee it. You'll probably never see them again and they will try to hit the 'Delete' button on their brains and get rid of everything you've shown them. It's almost an automatic reaction with most JWs. It was a brave effort though and I really hope they DO come back so you can expose them to a little more real science. You never know. Something might stick and make them think.

Slightly off topic: How strong is your faith when you run away from anything that challenges it? If you have 'the truth' then it will stand up to any challenges. If it doesn't, it isn't 'the truth'.

12

JW's Are All About Free Will Now

by pale.emperor in

from the january 2017 watchtower:.

first paragraph reads: when faced with making a personal choice, one woman told a friend: “do not make me think; just tell me what to do.

that is easier.” the woman preferred being told what to do instead of using a precious gift from her creator, the gift of free will.

Wayward

Free will stops being free will when someone is too scared to make their own choices and decisions because if they do, they lose their families. That's coercion and a form of slavery. "Do what we say or we take away your family." "Worship me, adore me, bow down to me or I roast you at Armageddon." How is that free will?

16

The Org is Growing???? Really???????

by The Searcher in

watchtower january 2017 - par.

15 - "we live in exciting times.

the earthly part of jehovah’s organization is growing in many ways, but growth necessitates change.".

Wayward

I see the WT's spin doctors are hard at work. There's only so long you can say all is well and everything is rainbows and kittens before people start seeing that you're full of crap. There are delusional types who will keep believing it and less delusional ones who will stick with it because it would be too devastating to admit, even to themselves, that they've been duped and taken advantage of.

21

Hypothetical: If WTS Reformed...?

by Cold Steel in

as i said in the subject line, this is purely hypothetical.

what do you think would happen if the wtbts leaders decided to reboot some of the organization's more controversial practices.

not that they would deny their claims to be jehovah's earthly representatives, nor the key elements of their eschatology; but in administrative outlooks.

Wayward

Polish a turd, its still a turd.