Junction Guy: Basically you are a plain garden variety ignorant red-neck. But, people like you are needed for riding bulls.
proplog2
JoinedPosts by proplog2
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150
I love debating with Liberals
by Junction-Guy infor some reason they just remind me of jehovah's witnesses.. .
maybe someday i will have my own conservative talk show.
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German Government "Scientology Unconstitutional"
by skeeter1 ingerman ministers say scientology unconstitutional by louis charbonneau 1 hour, 26 minutes ago .
berlin (reuters) - german federal and state interior ministers declared the church of scientology unconstitutional on friday, opening the door for a possible ban on the organization.
federal interior minister wolfgang schaeuble and 16 state interior chiefs agreed "that we do not consider scientology an organization that is compatible with the constitution," ehrhart koerting, berlin's interior minister and chairman of a ministers' conference in berlin, told reporters.. germany does not recognize scientology as a religion.
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proplog2
Treason: In this age of terrorism I guess you have to be more vigilant than usual. Actual planning of an attack should be sufficient grounds to arrest people. But, angry speech, about tearing the government down should be tolerated. Jesus talked about the temple being destroyed "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." At any rate JW's aren't a threat to any government.
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Attn: All Non-Yankee JWDers! Did the U.S. origin of JWs irritate you?
by Open mind injust curious.
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open mind.
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proplog2
JW's have been strongly affected by their Anglo-American orientation when it comes to interpretation of prophecy. On the one hand they say that the USA is King of the South and then they ignore the idea that the King of the North removes the King of the South as a significant player in the end-time scenario.
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German Government "Scientology Unconstitutional"
by skeeter1 ingerman ministers say scientology unconstitutional by louis charbonneau 1 hour, 26 minutes ago .
berlin (reuters) - german federal and state interior ministers declared the church of scientology unconstitutional on friday, opening the door for a possible ban on the organization.
federal interior minister wolfgang schaeuble and 16 state interior chiefs agreed "that we do not consider scientology an organization that is compatible with the constitution," ehrhart koerting, berlin's interior minister and chairman of a ministers' conference in berlin, told reporters.. germany does not recognize scientology as a religion.
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proplog2
More bull-shit meddling by government. If people want to join any group they should have that right. Even if a group's declared purpose is to overthrow some government they should be allowed to congregate and discuss their plans without direct interference. However, if individuals proceed to act on those plans ie. purchasing materials to harm people or property then they should be arrested.
LongHairGal: "cult masquerading as a church to make money". Does this sound like any other religion we know? JW's could have 100 times more members if they compromised on a few issues. They want members but not at the expense of surrendering their principles. They could have a lot more money too! If they are so good at deceiving their members they could easily persuade them to tithe. This is plain unsupported hate talk. People supporting government involvement in people's choice of religion or any affiliation have no respect for the freedoms they possess.
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German Government "Scientology Unconstitutional"
by skeeter1 ingerman ministers say scientology unconstitutional by louis charbonneau 1 hour, 26 minutes ago .
berlin (reuters) - german federal and state interior ministers declared the church of scientology unconstitutional on friday, opening the door for a possible ban on the organization.
federal interior minister wolfgang schaeuble and 16 state interior chiefs agreed "that we do not consider scientology an organization that is compatible with the constitution," ehrhart koerting, berlin's interior minister and chairman of a ministers' conference in berlin, told reporters.. germany does not recognize scientology as a religion.
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proplog2
More bull-shit meddling by government. If people want to join any group they should have that right. Even if a group's declared purpose is to overthrow some government they should be allowed to congregate and discuss their plans without direct interference. However, if individuals proceed to act on those plans ie. purchasing materials to harm people or property then they should be arrested. LongHairGal: "cult masquerading as a church to make money". Does this sound like any other religion we know? JW's could have 100 times more members if they compromised on a few issues. They want members but not at the expense of surrendering their principles. They could have a lot more money too! If they are so good at deceiving their members they could easily persuade them to tithe. This is plain unsupported hate talk. People supporting government involvement in people's choice of religion or any affiliation have no respect for the freedoms they possess.
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WOULD WOMEN MAKE GOOD ELDERS?
by Dansk ini've come to love and cherish much of the wisdom that emanates from the dear ladies of this forum and believe watchtower boobed in making all women subservient to the men.
so, do you think women would make good elders?.
ian.
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proplog2
Women Make Elders Good
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proplog2
Justhuman: I think the problems are "just human" not "demons". Belief in demons is part of the superstitious web of ideas that gets you trapped into listening to imaginary voices in your head. There IS a devil and it is the projected evil that is inside each of us.
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proplog2
Leolaia: That explains it. They really were channeling Rutheford. It is one thing to speculate as a human being. As you know, I must confess to doing that. But, to believe that your ideas are being placed in your head by invisible spirits is un-sane. Lo and behold they have actually published a teaching now that says this sort of thing is going on! It appears that Gregg Stafford and Robert King see themselves as specially chosen by God. The tree continues to add branches.
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proplog2
Alpha & Omega:
The Watchtower seems to believe that the 24 elders must be the 144,000. This is because they have crowns on their heads. The Watchtower presumes that the 144,000 are the only rulers in heaven besides God and Christ.
But these 24 elders/rulers are performing functions that seem to distinguish them from the holy ones.
For instance they are described as having bowls that contain the prayers of the holy ones. It seems as if they have some kind of administrative function and the prayers were batched out to the various members of some executive body represented by the 24 elders.
There is no explicit statement identifying the 24 elders as the 144,000. -
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proplog2
I hope this thread doesn't sink into oblivion too soon. In my opinion it explains how insidious self-delusion can be.
The article is really schizoid. On the one hand there are sweeping generalizations and then on the other hand they use a lot of saving clauses that give them some wiggle room.
Wiggle Phrases:
"It may be helpful to consider what might be viewed as a Bible parallel....."
"Could it, then be reasoned ..."
"That is an interesting POSSIBILITY..."
"Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible..."But what are all these admissions to speculative reasoning about?
They are about this sweeping generalization found at the end of paragraph 10
" John himself had a heavenly hope; but since he was still a man on earth when the elder spoke to him, in the vision (here is the generalization) John must represent anointed ones on earth who have not yet received their heavenly reward."There is no reason to invent a John class - except that's what Watchtower theologians are always doing - inventing classes.
You have to wonder which of the wacky 24 elders gave the John class the misinformation that led them to purchase Beth Sarim on behalf of those men of old who were shortly going to be resurrected.
If they set themselves up as "mediums" for channeling communication from departed brothers then they ought to get everything 100% right. Otherwise, they are not a reliable source - not any different from all of the other "spirit-mediums".
In paragraph 13 we go back to speculative expressions. The question for that paragraph is "In what way does Thessalonians 4:15-17 suggest that the first resurrection began early in Christ's Presence?
Actually 1 Thessalonians doesn't suggest anything of the sort. The Watchtower suggests it parenthetically by saying:
"We the living who survive to the presence of the Lord (not, to the end of his presence) "The Bible doesn't break Christ's presence into two parts or any parts. The Watchtower breaks it up because of their need to justify an invisible presence since Jesus' real presence didn't materialize in 1914.
Can you see this glaring example of circular reasoning? They presume a long presence (now almost 96 years) and then conclude since the scripture doesn't specifically say "at the end of the presence" it must mean their presumptive beginning of his presence.
Here is another presumption: "Therefore anointed Christians who died before Christ's presence were raised to heavenly life AHEAD of those who were still alive during Christ's presence."
The rapture takes place NOT in heaven but in the vicinity of the earth. The Lord descends (to where?) to earth or in the heavens near the earth. At that time those who were dead in union with Christ experience their death and resurrection as a "twinkling of an eye" as do those who are alive when Christ comes. They meet the lord in the "air" implying the expanse near the earth and not the dwelling place for spirits . The point is that they all go with Christ at the same time when Christ comes.
This agrees with the post tribulation events described in Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation....sign of the Son of man... coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory 24:31 "And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound and they will gather his chosen ones together from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity."
Is the trumpet sounding after the great tribulation NOT the same as the trumpet sounding at 1Thess 4:15-17? They both involve the resurrection of the holy ones. The resurrecton of ALL the holy ones takes place at the same time. This is not a gradual process that begins before the Great Tribulation. It happens AFTER the tribulation.This idea of the full number of holy ones being raised at once can be found at Revelation 6:11 "And a white robe was given to each of them and they were told to rest a little while longer, UNTIL the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been."
The Watchtower ought to look long and hard at the following scripture:
2Tim 2:18 "These very men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are subverting the faith of some."