Posts by proplog2

For your information I have seen segments of the Photo Drama. Also I am closer to being an atheist than anything else. I don't believe there is any entity that is all knowing or all powerful. I do think it is possible for a civilization "out there" to have evolved with a head start on us. They may be able to do a pretty good job as "god" to our fledgling world.

My lack of belief in god is the core of my attacks on anti-cultism. ALL religion is pretty much bullshit. Where do some bullshitites get the nerve to demean chickenshitites.

From a evolutionary view I think there is a social benefit that may be derived from organizations that have developed on the edges of mainstream society. These little isolated populations are essential to the evolution of society in general just as small business is to economics. The big religion's want you to forgive "their" sins and allow them to maintain a monopoly. Cult is a term that fits nicely into their program.

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More Anti-Cult Crap

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

it's nice to see ros post here but unfortunately its the same anti-cult hype.

a cult is just about any organization that you decide to leave for one reason or another.

let's consider these enlightening comparisons of moonies and jw's.

proplog2

ros:

Are you denying some kind of intent when you began your post on the Moonies?

<<We know the Unification Church (“Moonies”) are a real cult. But how <<can we say Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult?

How can YOU say Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult? Oh that's just some casual musing you didn't intend?

ROS you have drifted from a crazy religion into a sea of mediocre thinking at best. We ALL repeat pretty much the same stuff. But your stuff appears too "same".

I really like what you have done generally. I also admire AlanF for some of his writing. I even respect Bill Bowen for putting his "ass" out there in the public. I just think that some of the issues you use against the Watchtower while significant to YOU are totally impotent to accomplish your goal of toppling the Watchtower.

5

That Dateline thing.

by Dan B in

jw
friends

i've been away from this forum for a while, so i was wondering if that dateline story ever aired?

or is it still coming up?.

dan

proplog2

The "attack on america"
Olympics

and now Roman Catholic Pedophilia have upstaged the anti-witness stuff. It appears as if there are worse problems in the world.

Not that child molestation in any organization isn't bad it just doesn't appear to have a very high priority to the networks who need something sensational enough to draw a sizeable audience.

23

More Anti-Cult Crap

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

it's nice to see ros post here but unfortunately its the same anti-cult hype.

a cult is just about any organization that you decide to leave for one reason or another.

let's consider these enlightening comparisons of moonies and jw's.

proplog2

Amazing:

There are laws that could only be changed by Civil Disobedience. That's why Blacks and many whites in the USA admire Martin Luther King. There are ways to change JW teachings also. Sometimes it may require being disfellowshipped. Religious groups are harder to change because it is generally less of an inconvenience to leave a religion than to move to another country. Try to get the Catholic Church to change their position on birth control! or to have women priests - or to allow priests to marry. Don't give me the BS that I don't understand cults. Cult is just a label and you can slide the criteria around to match any organization you want to harm. What is the "line" that marks acceptable human interraction. You choose to draw that line based on YOUR discomfort. The six million JW's draw the line somewhere else. A billion Catholics draw the line in another place.

I can't defend stupid doctrine like "blood transfusions" nor can I defend the inquisition or the fighting going on between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland. I can't defend the forceful enslavement of Blacks by the writers of the American Constitution or the prohibition against women voting. I can't defend the ritual mutilation of little babies via circumcision. All of these things are REAL EVILS committed by organizations as they evolve. These things don't define them as cults. There is NO scietific way to validate the term. You can define something as a cult for YOUR purposes. You can talk about your BAD experiences. But this is not scientific enough to translate into public policy.

How can you prove that people who became JW's or any other religion were misinformed - unless you are an Atheist and conclude that "all" religious membership is a consequence of misinformation.

Your analogy of the ship is absurd and has no homologue in anything we are discussing.

23

More Anti-Cult Crap

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

it's nice to see ros post here but unfortunately its the same anti-cult hype.

a cult is just about any organization that you decide to leave for one reason or another.

let's consider these enlightening comparisons of moonies and jw's.

proplog2

It's nice to see Ros post here but unfortunately its the same anti-cult hype. A cult is just about any organization that you decide to leave for one reason or another. Let's consider these enlightening comparisons of Moonies and JW's

* The Moonies do a very thorough job of convincing people that
former members are satanic and that even being in their presence
could be dangerous. [p.3]

JW's teach that former members are generally considered to have
lost their faith but who may like the prodigal son feel regrets and return. Opposers who actively try to lure other
JW's away from their faith ARE satanic by definition. Jesus
accused Peter of being Satan when he was simply trying to save
Jesus from his fate.

There IS a difference between simply leaving an organization and
actively trying to destroy an organization.

The same can be said for citizenship. You can be a lousy citizen but if you go against the US constitution you will be considered a rebel.

* It is ironic that whereas Moon's stated goal is to unify the
world, many of his strategies foster jealousy and spite among
leaders, virtually insuring a lack of unity. [p.23]

This is rather vague in its application to JW's. JW's have never
said the world would be united by their work. Even Jesus knew that
there would be divisions caused in families etc by his message.

If causing disunity is your concern you had better focus on the
bitterness between political parties. Have you listened to Rush
Limbaugh lately? Or Rosie O'Donnel?

* The more people opposed us, the more committed we felt. [p.24]

This is human nature. Did you ever hear of stubbornness?

On a political level "If you're not with us you're against us"

* It was as if we were God's army in the middle of a spiritual war-
-the only ones who could go to the front lines and fight Satan each
day. [p.24]

Sounds like a typical Christian viewpoint. Salvation army?
Jesuits?

* The Moonies wanted to keep me from pursuing some disturbing
questions about the validity of the "time parallels" used in the
"History of Restoration" lecture. I had discovered some glaring
inconsistencies. It was dangerous for someone in my position in the
organization to ask questions that couldn't be answered. [p.25]

This is typical authoritarianism and parochialism. This is a
typical response when you challenge orthodoxy whether its religious,
scientific, or political.

* Indeed, it was my ideals and my own fantasy of an ideal world
that had lured me into the Moonies. Those ideals ultimately enabled
me to walk out and publicly condemn cult mind control. [p.33]

Some people remain in the moonies because of their idealism. In
the political arena you often hear "My country - right or wrong"
Such people are often honored as heroes.

* In the United States, cults exert tremendous economic clout by
buying up huge blocks of real estate and taking over hundreds of
businesses. [p.36]

What's wrong with religious groups having economic clout? Do you
like Bill Gate's economic clout? Ted Turners economic clout? One
of the things that comes with being a significant player in a
society is "clout".

Without the US constitution JW's wouldn't have much clout.

* They indoctrinate members to show only the best sides of the
organization. Members are taught to suppress any negative feelings
they have about the group and always show a continually smiling,
"happy" face. [p.41]

Sounds like Enron, Monsanto, Owens-Corning. Come on. It's called
"P-U-B-L-C R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S". Do you think the Mormons aren't
getting plenty of good press in connection with the olympics?

I can't think of any organization that doesn't want to put their
best foot forward.

* In some cults, members are systematically made to be phobic about
ever leaving the group. Today's cults know how to effectively
implant vivid negative images deep within members' unconscious
minds, making it impossible for the member to even conceive of ever
being happy and successful outside of the group. [p.45]

The same can be said about devout Catholics. Study Irish family
life. Everyone is motivated by maximizing pleasure and avoiding
"pain". Pleasure or pain can be imagined. Remember "hell-fire".

* In the same way, cult phobias take away people's choices. Members
truly believe they will be destroyed if they leave the safety of
the group. They think there are no other ways for them to grow--
spiritually, intellectually, or emotionally. They are virtually
enslaved by this mind control technique. [p.46]

The very act of deciding is a way of taking away your choices.
Marriage cuts you off from sex with anyone you may choose (in most
cases). A unique characteristic of Religion is that the rewards
and punishments are all imaginary. We are not enslaved by mind
control techniques. We are enslaved by choices and habit.

* Everyone, like it or not, is vulnerable to mind control. Everyone
wants to be happy. Everyone needs affection and attention. Everyone
is looking for something better in life: more wisdom, more
knowledge, more money, more status, more meaning, better
relationships, or better health. These basic human qualities and
needs are exactly what cult recruiters prey upon. It is important
to remember that for the most part, people don't join cults. Cults
recruit people. [p.48]

Yes everyone is vulnerable to control. Mind control is when you
choose to go along with the program. It doesn't matter what
organization, program, country, religion, business you associate
with you will experience persuasion and influence. No one likes
disruption. The last statement is really stupid. "People don't
join cults. Cults recruit people." Every organization wants to
grow. They all have recruitment drives. PTA, Girl Scouts, Red
Cross etc. etc. Canada and Russia need people. Indiana and Iowa
need tourists.

Once again you can see the mind control efforts of the "anti-cult"
movement.

20

They Fear Us

by metatron in

jw
friends

a few malcontents railing against the evils of the watchtower society.

belittled by shills like henry p and others.

but make no mistake about it, these web sites frighten the gerontocrats that run this sick cult.. why?.

proplog2

Ray Franz could take some of the crap from his files and put it on line for free. But, nooooooo..... He's saving it so he can make money off of apostates.

I've heard the lame excuses that his copywright books can't be put on the internet. So what. He could put other stuff on the internet. Just think of the good it would do.

Anti-JW is a business to some.

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