Posts by proplog2

My original argument still stands without rebuttal. The actual event the Watchtower is quoting is opposite of the way they construct it. Your declaring it much ado about nothing is your oppinion. It IS important to me and others - and it IS significant to us. If it really is nothing to you than you ought to focus on some other issue.

Here is WHY it is important. The introduction to a book is extremely important. A lot of thought and care ought to go into it. There are practically an unlimited number of ways you can do an introduction. The writers in this case chose a very flawed introduction. I have been a JW publisher for 54 years and I know what they are talking about.

Would it have been impossible for them to make their point AND represent the facts without contradiction? Certainly! Instead of saying "The question he chose to ask God, though, might surprise you. He did not ask about himself, his future, or even the plight of mankind. Rather, he asked God’s name." they could have just as easily said. ONE OF the questionS he chose to ask God, though, might surprise you. He did not JUST ask about himself, his future, or even the plight of mankind. Rather, he asked God’s name" Amazing! You can actually do this without making a very DUMB contradictory statement. And all of that by just adding 10 letters. Go ahead count them.

So where were the editors? Editors are supposed to avoid this kind of crappy writing. And here is where my opinion comes in. I think they’ve gotten real sloppy.

Thanks Oro. You have stretched this unimportant topic over the 1000 viewer bar.

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A Really Dumb Error in New Study Book

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

are you ready for a really dumb mistake?

im not talking about willful deception.

im not talking about stubborn adherence to a dogmatic idea.

proplog2

Scholar:

Do you understand my point at all?

I can think of a few letters to put after your name. How about PA for Pompous Ass.

How dare you parade your credentials in front of people who have struggled their whole goddamned lives because they were told NOT to get a college education.

I am almost 60 years old and continue to do menial labor. I don't even have time to participate on this forum because I have to work so much.

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A Really Dumb Error in New Study Book

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

are you ready for a really dumb mistake?

im not talking about willful deception.

im not talking about stubborn adherence to a dogmatic idea.

proplog2

Eduardo:

How refreshing to find someone who wants to defend the Watchtower.

You said: "your reasoning is ALL wrong". You failed to provide a rebuttal for my basic premise.

My premise is that SINCE the Watchtower claim that Moses "did not ask about himself" is contradicted by Exodus 3:11 "Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh and that I have to bring the sons of Israel out of Egypt? THEREFORE the Watchtower made a mistake.

I add the adjective DUMB to MISTAKE because the only reason that they would set this whole thing up the way they did is because they failed to use their SENSES much like a "dumb" person is used loosely to describe someone who has a sensory impairment.

As to whether Moses was concerned about himself or not. . "Concern" has to do with "focus of attention". Moses was expressing his "feeling". He felt inadequate. His focus of attention was on his perceived lack of resources to accomplish the task of delivering a whole Nation out of the greatest world power on Earth - Egypt.

Now as to your claim that SINCE this was a "rhetorical" question it really isn’t a question at all. This is special pleading on your part. A rhetorical question IS a question. That’s why there is a question mark. Not all statements that begin with an interrogatory are questions. But ALL statements that end with a "?" are indeed "questions".

At any rate the entity responded to Moses AS IF he had requested more data. And the information that was given to Moses indicates the entity believed Moses needed some evidence that he wouldn’t be peforming such a huge task without help.

You then say: The Society does not say that Moses asked this question FIRST as your post seems to wrongly suggest.

No the Watchtower (The Society doesn’t like the word "Society") doesn’t say the Question about God’s name was first or second. It doesn’t even suggest that there were any other questions asked. It refers to it as THE question. The suggestion is that there was only one question. This would be understandable if the question under discussion was at least the FIRST of a series. Even the question on that paragraph supports the idea that there was only one question.

"What did Moses ask God?" Now then if you were to answer that question from the Bible you would say "The first question Moses asked was - quote Exodus 3:11 and THEN he asked quote Exodus 3:13

As to your defense of the Watchtower writing style. I never objected to the style. I prefer simple writing myself. Thanks to the Watchtowers "enlightened" guidance I never went to college. But I DO know that a rhetorical question IS a question.

50

A Really Dumb Error in New Study Book

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

are you ready for a really dumb mistake?

im not talking about willful deception.

im not talking about stubborn adherence to a dogmatic idea.

proplog2

Are you ready for a really dumb mistake? I’m not talking about willful deception. I’m not talking about stubborn adherence to a dogmatic idea. I’m talking simply D-U-M-B.

It’s in the introductory paragraphs of the new book.

First I’ll quote word for word:

DRAW CLOSE TO JEHOVAH

Chapter 1

1. Can you imagine having a conversation with God? The very thought inspires awe-the Sovereign of the universe speaking to you! You hesitate at first, but then you manage to reply. He listens, he responds, and he even makes you feel free to ask any question you want. Now, what question would you ask?

2. Long ago, there was a man who was in just such a position. His name was Moses. The question he chose to ask God, though, might surprise you. He did not ask about himself, his future, or even the plight of mankind. Rather, he asked God’s name. You might find that odd, for Moses already knew God’s personal name. His question, then, must have had deeper meaning. In fact, it was the most significant question Moses could have asked. The answer touches us all. It can help you take a vital step in drawing close to God. How so? Let us take a look at that remarkable conversation.

The questions for paragraphs 1 & 2 (a) What questions would you like to ask God? (b) What did Moses ask God?

The question I would like to ask God is why he can’t help his modern day representatives avoid making themselves look like Bible illiterates.

Here is what I’m talking about. You would think from reading these paragraphs that the very first question Moses asked God was concerning God’s name. In fact if you actually look up the account in the Bible Moses asks a first question of God. I hope I understand this right. Doesn’t the "?" sign mean a question has been asked. OK So all I have to do is look for the "?" and read what is before it and I can safely assume a question has been asked.

Ex 3:11 "However, Moses said to the true God: "Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh and that I have to bring the sons of Israel out of Egypt?.

This definitely seems to be a question Moses is asking God. In fact it precedes the question about God’s name. And what is the subject of this very first question Moses asks God? He seems to be asking about HIMSELF. This is a clear contradiction to the claim in paragraph 2 that says "He (Moses) did NOT ask about himself".

This is a dumb mistake.

Doesn’t it make you wonder? Where are the editors? One individual writer might get carried away with a point they want to make. But that’s why there are editors. Didn’t the editors look up the scriptures quoted?

This is a mistake by a committee. I doubt that it would have happened when Karl Klein and Fred Franz were involved in the writing. To be sure they wrote a lot of stuff that deserves to be criticized - but they weren’t STUPID.

If the Watchtower is the spokesman at this critical period of the "END" shouldn’t we expect the Holy Spirit to somehow keep these people from looking STUPID?

If Christ sent his HELPER to this so-called "faithful slave" shouldn’t it at least HELP keep them from making themselves look DUMB?

You have to believe that some of the six million JW's have written the Watchtower about this mistake. You have to believe that someone has lost their job on account of this bumbling.

There was a time I would have written them and asked for an explanation. But since they don't give those explanations any more - why bother. So I felt compelled to write it up here.

32

It's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when"

by DanTheMan in

jw
friends

radical, militant islamists or a "rogue state" like n. korea will eventually succeed in nuking one or more american cities.

of this i am utterly convinced, it is not a matter of it "might" happen, the question is how soon will they succeed in pulling it off, and what will the fallout of such an event be, besides the loss of hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of lives?.

john kerry in a recent stump speech said that all it would take is one megaterrorist attack to drastically change life as we know it.

proplog2

My favorite subject.

30

I'm leaving this forum

by proplog2 in

i've left before but this time i'm through.. i don't have anything against simon.

i think he runs one of the best boards of this sort.

i guess i'm just bored with talking about jw's.. i'm cured.. .

proplog2

Thanks for the comments.

I really am not CURED. But leaving is part of the cure. If I were cured I would leave without saying anything. I would just tip-toe out the door.

There IS something unique about the JW experience. They DO have a brotherhood and it persists even among those who leave. The support here is a mirror of what you would find in the organization MINUS the fear.

While on this board many may have mistaken some of my posts for a defense of JW's I hate JW irrationality on so many points - especially BLOOD . On the other hand I feel compelled to defend them when the attacks against them are irrational and groundless.

At this point I don't feel like defending them even when the attacks are unfounded. The Watchtower writers peek in here and that's their job. They have more to lose than I do.

I have especially enjoyed watching so many people transform their lives. It has been better than fiction.

I take with me memories of many hours grappling with issues of proper argumentation. This has been a great class in dealing with faulty reasoning.

Let me reccommend what I consider the absolutely best book on argumentation. If only 10% of the people here paid the money for this book everyone here could spend ALL their time in fluff.

Attacking Faulty Reasoning A Practical Guid to Fallacy Free Arguments

T. Edward Damer.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0534551335/104-6365838-1971937?v=glance

Good Bye Good Luck (I love luck)

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