Posts by proplog2

15

Where the Bible Got It Right- An Atheist's Perspective On Love and Altruism

by nvrgnbk in

let your love be genuine.

good verses in the bible.

there is an old saying to the effect that the two topics you should never discuss with your friends are politics and religion.

proplog2

Awakened 07

You are absolutely right. Had things happened another way then THAT'S what would have happened.

It IS interesting how so much of what has happened is centered on NOT following the example of Jesus.

And what about this odd group of 6 million people who really do follow Jesus on his most important issues.

Isn't there something strange about 1/3 of the people on earth claiming to follow Christ? Why wasn't he able to predict such great success. Why would he say that narrow is the road leading to life and few even find it? Did he fail to see the impact his teachings would have? Or did he realize that most of the people who claim to follow him would be hypocrites?

17

Fight or Flight - How Do You Know?

by compound complex in

dear friends,.

on principle [or obstinancy], we are determined to stand our ground and fight for what we believe in.

on other occasions, we conclude that ours is a lost cause and that we need to take our leave of certain people and issues.. there's rarely a simple, cut-and-dry approach, but i am interested in how you've dealt with the opposites of flght and flight in your struggles.

proplog2

You fight to protect your food and offspring. You take flight to protect your body - avoid becoming something else's food. You explore to become familiar with your territory. You relax (do nothing) so you can build up energy or the next thing.

15

Where the Bible Got It Right- An Atheist's Perspective On Love and Altruism

by nvrgnbk in

let your love be genuine.

good verses in the bible.

there is an old saying to the effect that the two topics you should never discuss with your friends are politics and religion.

proplog2

Damn Firefox formatting. But its the only way to access threads more than a day old.

15

Where the Bible Got It Right- An Atheist's Perspective On Love and Altruism

by nvrgnbk in

let your love be genuine.

good verses in the bible.

there is an old saying to the effect that the two topics you should never discuss with your friends are politics and religion.

proplog2

Why did Jesus appear on the earth at such a pivotal point in human development?

Without Jesus there would never have been western civilization.

As an atheist I could hardly believe he is God's Son. But it
seems humans needed a new paradigm-one of self -sacrifice.

Jesus needed an audience. So where in the chain of cause and
effect do you stop. You needed a obsessive/compulsive religious
people like the Jews to drive home the need to reach out to other people.
If there were no Jews, there would have been NO Jesus
- there would have been no Western Civilization.

If the Jews had accepted Jesus - then Christians would have just been a
jewish sect that would have disappeared in AD 70 with the destruction of Jerusalem.

Instead, Christians, after the council in Jerusalem (Acts 15) spread
throughout the Roman empire. Some have said that the Council in
Jerusalem was the beginning of Western Civilization. It was really
important to quit cutting off foreskins!

If Paul would have never experienced what he claimed to experience
(some say it was a stroke) Christianity would have never escaped
the gravitational pull of Judaism.

If it weren't for Christianity Europe would have become Moslem.
Moslems would have been the only ones out there converting people
at the edge of the sword. The Americas would have been discovered by
someone named Mohammed.

Jesus taught that we should love our enemies. This precludes fighting wars.
Jesus' teachings transcended geographical boundaries. Jews still think
their future rests in Israel. Muslims pray facing Mecca.
Bahais , as noble as their intent may be, face Haiffa when they pray.
Mormons are lost without Utah. Christianity has fallen back so far into
the old habits of nationalism that the worlds two greatest wars were fought
primarily by Christians vs Christians.

Jesus' final command to his followers was to
"Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations , baptizing them
...TEACHING THEM to observe all the things I have commanded you.
And, look, I am with you all the days UNTIL the conclusion of the system of things." NWT

Jesus' principal command was to love - even your enemies.
Significant also was his mention of the end of this system (world, age).

Enter Jehovah's Witnesses. There would be no Jehovah's Witnesses
if those who claimed to be Christian were doing their job.
It was necessary that the field became full of weeds so that the
grain would stand out at harvest time. If Christians would have
beaten their swords into ploughshares JW's wouldn't stand out.

We have all had some bad experiences with JW's.
I have had problems with the too. I am not an organization man
so I have had trouble with every organization.
You can call them whatever you want. You can hate them.
You can ridicule them for expecting the end to be soon.
But, they are the most significant group on the face of the earth
that are holding to Jesus command to love your enemy.
And they ARE teaching people to teach others.
Let me repeat that because it's so important - they don't just teach people to love -
they teach people so THEY can teach also.
They have beaten their swords into ploughshares.
They are not threatening with a sword.
They are now a nation (average size UN member is around 6 million)
that spreads over the face of the earth.

As an atheist I don't believe in original sin.
I believe in intrinsic sin. Evolution requires selfishness - up to a point.
For humans to get to the next stage they have to abandon social selfishness -
namely nationalism. JW's have done that. They are the next step.
They follow Jesus on this matter. Because they have abandoned nationalism
they will survive the coming collapse of this selfish nationalistic world.

Daniel 7:27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms
under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people
of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all
rulers will worship and obey him.' NIV

By the way, my being an Atheist doesn't mean that I can't believe in other less powerful
entities that could be responsible for some sort of minimal intervention
in the affairs on this great reserve of intelligent life.

15

Where the Bible Got It Right- An Atheist's Perspective On Love and Altruism

by nvrgnbk in

let your love be genuine.

good verses in the bible.

there is an old saying to the effect that the two topics you should never discuss with your friends are politics and religion.

proplog2

Why did Jesus appear on the earth at such a pivotal point in human development? Without Jesus there would never have been western civilization. As an atheist I could hardly believe he is God's Son. But it seems humans needed a new paradigm-one of self -sacrifice. Jesus needed an audience. So where in the chain of cause and effect do you stop. You needed a obsessive/compulsive religious people like the Jews to drive home the need to reach out to other people. If there were no Jews, there would have been NO Jesus - there would have been no Western Civilization. If the Jews had accepted Jesus - then Christians would have just been a jewish sect that would have disappeared in AD 70 with the destruction of Jerusalem. Instead, Christians, after the council in Jerusalem (Acts 15) spread throughout the Roman empire. Some have said that the Council in Jerusalem was the beginning of Western Civilization. It was really important to quit cutting off foreskins! If Paul would have never experienced what he claimed to experience (some say it was a stroke) Christianity would have never escaped the gravitational pull of Judaism. If it weren't for Christianity Europe would have become Moslem. Moslems would have been the only ones out there converting people at the edge of the sword. The Americas would have been discovered by someone named Mohammed. Jesus taught that we should love our enemies. This precludes fighting wars. Jesus' teachings transcended geographical boundaries. Jews still think their future rests in Israel. Muslims pray facing Mecca. Bahais , as noble as their intent may be, face Haiffa when they pray. Mormons are lost without Utah. Christianity has fallen back so far into the old habits of nationalism that the worlds two greatest wars were fought primarily by Christians vs Christians. Jesus' final command to his followers was to "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations , baptizing them ...TEACHING THEM to observe all the things I have commanded you. And, look, I am with you all the days UNTIL the conclusion of the system of things." NWT Jesus' principal command was to love - even your enemies. Significant also was his mention of the end of this system (world, age). Enter Jehovah's Witnesses. There would be no Jehovah's Witnesses if those who claimed to be Christian were doing their job. It was necessary that the field became full of weeds so that the grain would stand out at harvest time. If Christians would have beaten their swords into ploughshares JW's wouldn't stand out. We have all had some bad experiences with JW's. I have had problems with the too. I am not an organization man so I have had trouble with every organization. You can call them whatever you want. You can hate them. You can ridicule them for expecting the end to be soon. But, they are the most significant group on the face of the earth that are holding to Jesus command to love your enemy. And they ARE teaching people to teach others. Let me repeat that because it's so important - they don't just teach people to love - they teach people so THEY can teach also. They have beaten their swords into ploughshares. They are not threatening with a sword. They are now a nation (average size UN member is around 6 million) that spreads over the face of the earth. As an atheist I don't believe in original sin. I believe in intrinsic sin. Evolution requires selfishness - up to a point. For humans to get to the next stage they have to abandon social selfishness - namely nationalism. JW's have done that. They are the next step. They follow Jesus on this matter. Because they have abandoned nationalism they will survive the coming collapse of this selfish nationalistic world. Daniel 7:27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.' NIV By the way, my being an Atheist doesn't mean that I can't believe in other less powerful entities that could be responsible for some sort of minimal intervention in the affairs on this great reserve of intelligent life.

23

"Babylon the Great has Gallen--God's Kingdom Rules!"

by Terry in

this was the book we studied when i went to prison in 1967 at seagovilled federal correctional facility near dallas.. the babylon book, we called it.. it is where i first encountered fred franz's mania for specificity.

franz was the lone ranger prophetic mouthpiece for jw's for a long time and pounded out on his typewriter an amazing array of weird books.

but, the babylon book had it all.

proplog2

It was released at the world wide assemblies in 1963. I conducted the book study (age 19) and remember a couple of times I fell asleep while the brother was reading the paragraphs. It was almost as boring as the Isaiah books.

34

JW's Are The Key to Survival

by proplog2 in

this is an elaboration of a comment i made on gills post about the demise of jw's as the years pass.

gill suggested that humans have survived turmoil in the past.

but our world is different.

proplog2

Gill: That statistic pops up all over the internet. I spent over an hour looking for the source of that "study" and it is nowhere. The closest I can nail it is to Bill Bowen or Danny Hazzard. It is based on some 23,000 files that Barbara Anderson alleges identified child molesters. In reality there may be more than 23,000 there may be less. Next this number is placed alongside molestation charges among catholic priests. The problem should be obvious. JW's have strong consciences and are more likely to come forward and confess. Also they generally form investigative committees to follow up on a confession. Catholics on the other hand confess in private and priests generally respect individual anonymity in confession. JW's are victims of their obsessive record keeping. If it were possible to standardize the data collection it would be possible to make an analysis. But without standardized procedures this is a very sloppy piece of evidence. Without setting standards it would be safe to assume that the incidence of molestation would be very similar in any large sampling of the population. The claim that you quote has no basis. People believe ridiculous things because it agrees with their preferred vision of the world around them.

34

JW's Are The Key to Survival

by proplog2 in

this is an elaboration of a comment i made on gills post about the demise of jw's as the years pass.

gill suggested that humans have survived turmoil in the past.

but our world is different.

proplog2

Hortensia: You and others here are under the impression that JW's will be just like everyone else - runnning around completely disoriented when they lose contact with the HQ. Basically you are denying the whole premise that there are certain structures that, in a crisis, make some organizations more robust than others. I listed some of those factors that have been researched. They are basically common sense things. Clear order of command. Strong communication. Trust. Redundancy. Size is a multiplier of these factors. Next you make a bunch of assumptions that are commonly used on this hate forum. Mindless obedience? Some people in every organization are "mindless". There is also mindless disobedience. Just another corporation? Corporations are legal entities and are indeed "without souls". But the organizations that uses these legal "bodies" have an independent structure based on defined purposes, constitutions, or belief systems. Don't become a victim of your own propaganda.

34

JW's Are The Key to Survival

by proplog2 in

this is an elaboration of a comment i made on gills post about the demise of jw's as the years pass.

gill suggested that humans have survived turmoil in the past.

but our world is different.

proplog2

Gill:

You can't prove your statistics on the comparison of molestation in the Catholic Church and JW's.

But, as I have stated earlier - I'm not into proving right and wrong. I am interested in the structure of things. The FAMILY is the most dangerous organization when it comes to child abuse. The reason? Proximity. Jehovah's Witnesses are a very close almost family or tribal- like organization. There is a tendency to trust others and the opportunity for individuals to abuse that trust.

Most churches don't have the same kind of close family atmosphere that JW's have. There are some churches that occupy the central social focus of its members. Those churches most probably have some child abuse going on.

Incest and other predatory behaviors are endemic to human society. I think it is unfair to use that as a club to beat up on Catholics or JW's.

When you talk about cataclysms in human history you seem to be saying that they have been commonplace. That's true. There have been war, famine and pestilence. But, human society was structured in such a way that stronger groups would survive. We have created a different world. We have homogenized everything to the point where a greater number of people are exposed to danger. We have modern agriculture that can feed billions but at the same time we could encounter situations that could starve billions. Since we have abandoned the agrarian life for modern city life everything is at the end of a long chain of manufacturing, and distribution. Modern man is extremely vulnerable.

74

Poll for the guys....what hair color on women draws your eye first?

by restrangled in

jw
friends

this question is about your initial response visually....not the girl, not the girl your with, just what color hair draws your eye first.. blond, brunette, red, or black?.

r..

proplog2

curly black