Posts by pseudoxristos

47

Complete reversal: from Witness to atheist

by Ephanyminitas in

i'm pretty new here (five minutes old!

) and i'm curious: how many have left the organization and, in time, become athiests.

i was raised in the organization, so growing up, my thinking was -- of course -- stifled.

pseudoxristos

Five gospels,

I enjoyed your post, especially the idea that there is a trend among Witnesses toward Atheism.

This trend, i.e. of a reversal from “believer” to “atheist” that seems so prevalent among former Jehovah’s Witnesses is noteworthy. I think the Society’s very nature fosters this trend. Basically, their theology forces one to reject virtually every idea about God/spirituality that does not conform their limited world-view, and when their house of cards finally proves too tenuous for one to adhere to, there seems to be nothing left.

There does seem to be a very thin line between the Witnesses and Atheism. After all, the Witnesses have already proven all other religions wrong except their own. The final step in becoming Atheists for a Witness is to realize that, their own religion false. I find it somewhat ironic that most Witnesses do not know how close they are to becoming that "foolish Atheist" they ridicule constantly from the podium.

For me my journey to "Atheism" was a little different than most here, but it was still cultivated by the Watchtower. In my quest to prove the Watchtower wrong, I did learn enough of the Watchtower truths to realize that many of my rock solid beliefs were nothing but delusions. It pains me somewhat to admit that the great enemy "The Watchtower" does teach some truth. But I realize now that these truths are the tools used to keep the Rank & File in limbo.

With the decline in new converts in recent years, it is possible that the Watchtower is doing more now to cultivate Atheism than the “Truth™”.

9

Present day torture of a witness in Canada

by pseudoxristos in

the following is a partial quote from a jw forum.. .

re: present day torture of a witness in canada.

...she has leukemia.

pseudoxristos

Follow up response from same forum:

This is terrible. When our 16 year old son was being treated for Cancer they honored his request that no blood transfusions be used when the blood count became low from the chemo therapy. They honored his wishes and these doctors should do the same. Until his dying day they honored his wishes and I thanked them over and over for honoring his God Given Right to decline the use of a blood transfusion. We were very fortunate to have wonderful doctors that treated the person and their wishes rather than treating the disease. I thank even today Jehovah for this for our son.

No more! I cannot stand the thought that the Watchtower has this much power over people’s lives. This cult must be stopped. Not only is the Watchtower guilt of the death of many innocent people, they are responsible for dividing families and destroying the lives of all who associate with them. I have never been a Witness, but 7 years after my ex-wife’s brief indoctrination into the Borg, I still can not accept the fact that so many allow the organization to exert so much control over their lives. What can be done to stop the insanity?

9

Present day torture of a witness in Canada

by pseudoxristos in

the following is a partial quote from a jw forum.. .

re: present day torture of a witness in canada.

...she has leukemia.

pseudoxristos

The following is a partial quote from a JW forum.

Re: Present day torture of a witness in Canada
...She has leukemia. When she tries to fight off the blood transfusions the staff restrain her and drug her with something that will cause her not to remember the blood being administered. This is the standard procedure they are using on her. Sound like the Holocaust or the Inquisition? If people didn't agree with the Catholic Church in those days they were tortured. In Alberta if a person, even as old as 16 ½, doesn't agree with one of the medical choices she is tortured. If that isn't enough, her father, a baptized witness, is in support of the use of blood which has now caused a wedge between them and has made it extra difficult for the mother and her two sisters who are witnesses. We have found this to be shocking. The rest of Canada accepts informed choices by young people who can convince the hospital staff of their conviction but not here. The girl's attorney is from the Canada Branch and there is a brother representing the mother. The father got some sleizebag lawyer. This whole incident has touched us personally.... The father in the mean time, has become even more insane. It has become known that he has guns in his home and so the kingdom hall will have to be locked during meetings. ...

What would the response from Witnesses be if she had refused the transfusions and died?

161

I've been studying for about a year now...

by Meow921 in

i've been studying with the jw's for about a year now.

i know that by nature (or nurture!

) i have an addictive personality so i have tried to be real careful that i'm doing the right thing by getting involved with them.

pseudoxristos

Convincing others to accept their belief system helps them to feel more confident that they have the truth. Imagine surrounding yourself with people that have the same beliefs as you. After awhile, you will no longer be able to see the issues with objectivity. This is how many have slowly sunk into the Watchtower trap.

47

Complete reversal: from Witness to atheist

by Ephanyminitas in

i'm pretty new here (five minutes old!

) and i'm curious: how many have left the organization and, in time, become athiests.

i was raised in the organization, so growing up, my thinking was -- of course -- stifled.

pseudoxristos

count me as well,

Nice to see others have come to the same conclusions, without a support group and the manipulation required of other belief systems.

17

Is Death the End?

by gilwarrior in

for once i will try to post a serious topic so here goes.... most of us here have rejected most if not all of the jw teachings.

i (as well as most of you) certainly do not believe that armaggedon will arrive someday in the future and everybody who is not a jw will die and the witnesses that are left will rebuild the earth.. so, the question i have is this: what do you think happens when you die?.

do you go to heaven or hell?

pseudoxristos

gilwarrior

Or perhaps there is the scariest possibility: that there is no God and that when you die that is it!

Having dealt with this issue myself, I know what your going through. After 3 or 4 years of dealing with the Witnesses, I was forced to drop many of my former beliefs in the pursuit of discovering what the "truth" really is. For me the belief in Hell was much more tolerable than the thought of non-existance. It took me a long time to face the possiblity that there is no God and that when you die that is it.

The thought that we become non-existant at death, does not bother me as much as it once did. I rationalize it with the idea that for many billions of years before I was born, I did not exist. I don't have a problem with not existing before, so I shouldn't have a problem with non-existance after I die. For me the process of dying is much more frightening than being dead.

12

Quote from a Witness board on Yahoo

by pseudoxristos in

jw
friends

letter writing is just one of the many ways that we can do witnessing.

i have known of sisters and brothers that went through the newspaper looking for obituaries (death announcements) and researched the family members then wrote them a brief letter included the brochure "when someone you love dies".

in doing this some have started bible studies.

pseudoxristos

Letter writing is just one of the many ways that we can do witnessing. I have known of sisters and brothers that went through the newspaper looking for obituaries (death announcements) and researched the family members then wrote them a brief letter included the brochure "When Someone You Love Dies". In doing this some have started bible studies. Some cases the individual is just thankful for something that gives hope. Another thing that I have heard about from the newspaper is looking for birth, wedding and engagement announcements. You can include the name and quote from one of our publications, along with scripture quotations, that apply to the situation.

Un-believable!

37

Jesus - Michael or God?

by Dawn in

i've been researching this issue for myself - it's a doctrine i was still having problems understanding - is he or isn't he.... i came across a couple of interesting scriptures that i had not noticed before so thought i'd share them with ya'll:.

1) genesis 1:26 - then god said, "let us make man in our image..." i was taught as a jw that god was speaking to jesus (michael) here.

if that's true, and jesus/michael is an angel - that would mean that god created angels in his image also (since i refers to "image" as singular - it doesn't say images).

pseudoxristos

Dawn,

I have been interested in this subject, and have not really been able to find enough evidence to conclusively prove one way or the other that Jesus and Michael are, or are not the same. The following is from some research I have done on the subject. This was actually a post from a previous thread with lots of good points discussed.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=21467&site=3

The Watchtower points out that Michael is the only Archangel mentioned in the bible; therefore he must be the highest Angel. The parallel of Michael, as the highest angel and Jesus as God's first creation, seems at first to imply that they could be the same. A little background into Jewish thought during the first century will show that this is not necessarily true.
The Word "Archangel" can be compared to a similar word in the NT, "Chief Priests"
A Greek Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature
'archiereus' The pl. is used in the NT and in Joseph to denote members of the Sanhedrin who belonged to high priestly families.
'archaggelos' A member of the higher ranks in the heavenly host PK 2 p. 14,27. Michael (En. 20, 5;8) is one of them Jd 9. He is also prob. the archangel who will appear at the Last Judgment 1 Th 4:16.

The Chief Priests are mentioned several times in the NT. It is clear that although there was a Chief Priest over the others, there are many references to the others as Chief Priests. Therefore when someone is referred to as a Chief Priest, it does not necessary mean he is Head of the Priests. The word archangel was used in a similar fashion during that period, as can be seen in the book of Daniel and the some of the writings that did not make it into the bible.
The book 1 Enoch is the best example of this.

quote:

I Enoch 20:1
1. And these are names of the holy angels who watch: 2. Suruel, one of the holy angels-for (he is) of eternity and of trembling. 3. Raphael, one of the holy angels, for (he is) of the spirits of man. 4. Raguel, one of the holy angels who take vengeance for the world and for the luminaries. 5. Michael, one of the holy angels, for (he is) obedient in his benovolence over the people and the nations. 6. Saraqael, one of the holy angels who are (set) over the spirits of mankind who sin in the spirit. 7. Gabriel on of the holy angels who oversee the garden of Eden, and the serpents, and the cherubim.

Most scholars agree that 1 Enoch was composed between the 2nd Cent. BC - 1st Cent. AD. They also believe that the book of Daniel, received its final editing in the 2nd Cent. BC. Both the book of Daniel and the book of Enoch are apocalyptic works, and share many of the same ideas of that period. In the book of Daniel, Michael is referred to as "one of the foremost princes", not as the foremost prince (Da 10:13). This context is much like 1 Enoch, which lists him as just one of many "holy angels". The other reference in Daniel (Da 12:1), "Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people". Again, very much like Michael in 1 Enoch.
1 Enoch also heavily influenced the book of Jude. The idea of the angels of the flood being held in eternal bonds (Jude 6) is discussed in 1 Enoch 10 1:22. The reference to "Michael" (Jude 9), and the reference to Enoch's prophesy of the myriads of angels (Jude 14), are clear indications of 1 Enoch's influence.
quote:

Jude 14
Yes, the seventh one [in line] from Adam, Enoch, prophesied also regarding them. When he said: "Look! Jehovah came with his holy myriads.

The Deuterocanonical book of 2 Esdras also refers to the archangel Uriel.
quote:

2Esdr 4:36 And unto these things Uriel the archangel gave them answer, and said, Even when the number of seeds is filled in you: for he hath weighed the world in the balance.

It is clear from the documents of the 1st Century period that Michael was not considered the only “archangel”. He likely became a favorite of the Christian writers because he was, “the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people”. I see no evidence of a connection between Michael and Jesus.
The Watchtower has come to this conclusion for the same reason that Russell believed the pyramid was God's Witness in stone. The Watchtower has continually looked for patterns in the Bible, and drawn false conclusions from them. This explains all of the false prophecies and all the strange doctrines that they now have, and all the weird things to come.
If you look at any complex subject, such as the bible, eventually you will come up with interesting parallels. Throw in a complex structure like the pyramid and you will get Volume III of Studies in the Scriptures.
This is just another example of the Watchtower’s narrow-minded point of view, and their attempt to be slightly different than other religions, for the sake of impressing those without some background on the subject.

41

Complaints

by Guyferna in

please only respond to this message if you read everything on here first.

thank you.. why do people spend most of their time here complaining?.

some say: the organization is too strict!.

pseudoxristos

Instead of writing and complaining on the Internet like a lazy coward! Go and talk to people, to their face. Go and make a difference in the world.

Why do they keep leaving? Did you guys say something to offend them? I feel like they slammed a door in my face before I could even get my mouth open.

130

Micheal the ArcAngel/Jesus the man

by plmkrzy in

jw
friends

i understand that a lot believe that micheal and jesus are one in the same some believe that jehovah and jesus are one in the same some believe that one is the son of god yadda yadda yadda.. would some of you please address or post your reasons for believing that micheal the arc angel was not gods first creation and why he couldn't be the one sent to us to be born as a man and become our savyor?

why would he not have another name fitting his role as a man on earth?

he obviously wouldn't be living on earth as a child growing up as an angel.

pseudoxristos

Yadirf,

I don't think you are going to be able to prove the Michael/Jesus theory, which is never clearly stated in the Bible, with another theory that is even more obscure than the first.

That is an interesting link though. It looks like somebody drew pictures while reading the book of II Enoch 1:1-11:6.

The fact is, that there is simply not enough evidence in the cannon
of the bible to come to the conclusion that Michael and Jesus are the same. At the same time, you can't prove they are different. That is why this debate is growing in length. Nobody is going to prove anything to anybody, with just the Bible.

Much more evidence of Jewish thought on this subject can only be found by looking at non-cannonical writings of that period. I still believe they were not the same based on these other writtings.

The Greek word 'arch' which means beginning, origin, ruler, has nothing to do with the english word 'arc' or it's Latin origin 'arcus' which means bow. The Greek word for bow is 'toxon'.