Posts by robB

27

Fernando says we are "all" dysfunctional

by Phizzy in

poster fernando makes the statement on another thread that we are all "fallen, imperfect, dysfunctional" .

everybody.. i get the feeling that this is not too far removed in its thinking from the wt statement that apostates are mentally diseased, now i am aware that fernando is perpetuating the late doctrine of original sin, and his words were about all mankind, not just us on jwn.. but do you believe you are cursed by what a fictitious couple did in a fabled garden around 6,000 years ago ?

does that make you imperfect, fallen and dysfunctional ?.

robB

Fernando is correct because his point is biblically true. The Bible is true because it has proven itself by the fullfillment of prophecy.

11

How many people do you know of that are ministering to J'W's and Ex-JW's but they themselves were never a JW?

by disciple in

robB

Never been a JW but I have a good friend who is a 'born in' JW and I came here to learn how people get out so I can help him.

I guess I'm not surprised by what I find here. Many people who leave come to the conclusion that all religion is rubbish. If you think about it, that's a secondary benefit to the work of the false prophet. He's doing an excellent job! xJWs have trouble with discerning truth, nearly as much as when they were in. When they were in they repressed truth. Do JW's know anything about false prophets? Most certainly. Who would they consider responsible for the 'Great Apostasy' --- the answer must be that it was started by and is propagated by False Prophets.

When they find out/stop repressing the truth which is that they have been led by a false prophet so many totally give up. That there is a such a thing as a false prophet requires a true prophet or true teacher. Otherwise all prophets are false. Think about this. What would be the point of making a distinction if all prophets were false? I can understand why they come to this conclusion. They are taught and shown how all world's religions are pagan. When they find out the GB is false, they are too burned out to consider that maybe Christendom has some truth after all.

Finding out that the GB is false does not negate the religion of the ancient Jews and their messianic writings. Finding out that the GB is false does not negate Isaiah 53. Finding out that the GB is false does not negate the point that the most likely conclusion of the NT manuscripts is that they were written in the first century with verifiable accounts of miraculous events.

23

How do you study the Bible? (for those that do)

by Silent_Scream in

what have you found is a productive way for you to study the bible?

do you have a group?

or a solitary preference?.

robB

I prefer to read verse by verse, with a purpose of understanding a book.

23

Its Easter, Christ is Risen - Really?

by cofty in

the resurrection of jesus is at the heart of the christian faith.

"but if it is preached that christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even christ has been raised.

robB

mP:

What proof have you got that Paul actually knew Jesus. The only thing he says about Jesus is he died for us and thats about it.

Paul testified that Jesus began a relationship with him while he was on the road to Damascus. Have you read the letters of the NT? Your statement is so misinformed that you either don't know anything about the bible or you are purposefully lying.

- What facts does Paul tell us about jesus life, ministry, miracles and eventual resurrection ?

At the time of Paul letters there are already creeds in place. Look this up for yourself.

Unfortunately the evidence from his own letters are very very few. In another thread the best Tec could show was Paul mentioning James, John and Cephus and thats it. He never mentions Jesus birth, Bethlehem or any of the basic facts we know about jesus.

Since the disciple John is not mentioned in Paul's writings he therefore does not exist and is a fabrication of the early church. The same is true about the Great Pumpkin.

23

Its Easter, Christ is Risen - Really?

by cofty in

the resurrection of jesus is at the heart of the christian faith.

"but if it is preached that christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even christ has been raised.

robB

I find it interesting you leave out Paul's list of witnesses to the resurrection. The manuscript evidence points to the first century authorship. This is something that cannot be debated.

Put yourself in the first century as an investigator. Do you have enough details to verify the claims?

All of this takes on more meaning if you are jewish and you know anything about the prophecies concerning the messiah.

The cartoon's point is misleading. Consider the manuscripts as affadavits, that was Luke's point in his gospel and travelogue (Acts). He gathered the details and wrote his report. How is this different from other ancient myths that include eyewitness accounts? Paul's claims were provable when recorded. How is this different from the Mormons? They had 'eyewitness' too. I don't know how they received the plates, but nothing in the book was provable when it was translated. JW's are taught to ignore details.

34

Bart Ehrman...Jesus Existed

by XJW4EVR in

when the uber-liberal, agnostic bart ehrman says it...it must be true.. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bart-d-ehrman/did-jesus-exist_b_1349544.html.

robB

mP,

Your suggestion that maybe the papyrus is not referring to Jesus is childish. I won't continue with this. If you are generally interested in the topic of historical manuscripts I suggest you read a book on Palaeography.

I made the point that early 2nd century dating of the Rylands papyrus argues strongly for 1st century authorship. John wrote his books sometime in the 1st century (year 1 to 100 AD) The Rylands papyrus is not the original autograph.

I'm well aware of the issues from Mark. The point is similar to JWs saying there's not trinity in the Bible. What does the Angel tell the nice ladies? What are the possible conclusions from the discussion?

34

Bart Ehrman...Jesus Existed

by XJW4EVR in

when the uber-liberal, agnostic bart ehrman says it...it must be true.. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bart-d-ehrman/did-jesus-exist_b_1349544.html.

robB

The John Rylands papyrus is the start of evidence. It is dated by scholars to the first quarter of the second century, 125 AD. It is an incredible find. You have to understand the weight this gives to first century authorship of the NT. Consider Ceasar's Commentarii de Bello Gallico, the oldest copy of this work is from the 10th century.

The Rylands papyrus not only gives unparralled weight to 1st century authorship, it also clearly shows how unmolested our copies are today. When the Rylands papyrus was found did anyone say, Oh we have to go back and change the book of John? No because this is what was found:

Gospel of John 18:31-33

ΟΙ ΙΟΥΔΑΙΟΙ ΗΜΙΝ ΟΥΚ ΕΞΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΠΟΚΤΕΙΝΑΙ
OYΔΕΝΑ ΙΝΑ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΤΟΥ ΙΗΣΟΥ ΠΛΗΡΩΘΗ ΟΝ ΕΙ-
ΠΕΝ ΣHΜΑΙΝΩΝ ΠΟΙΩ ΘΑΝΑΤΩ ΗΜΕΛΛΕΝ ΑΠΟ-
ΘΝHΣΚΕΙΝ ΕΙΣΗΛΘΕΝ ΟΥΝ ΠΑΛΙΝ ΕΙΣ ΤΟ ΠΡΑΙΤΩ-
ΡΙΟΝ Ο ΠIΛΑΤΟΣ ΚΑΙ ΕΦΩΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΙΗΣΟΥΝ
ΚΑΙ ΕΙΠΕΝ ΑΥΤΩ ΣΥ ΕΙ O ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣ ΤΩΝ ΙΟΥ-
ΔAΙΩN the Jews, "For us it is not permitted to kill
anyone," so that the word of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he sp-
oke signifying what kind of death he was going to
die. Entered therefore again into the Praeto-
rium Pilate and summoned Jesus
and said to him, "Thou art king of the
Jews?"

Gospel of John 18:37-38

ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣ ΕΙΜΙ ΕΓΩ ΕΙΣ TOΥΤΟ ΓΕΓΕΝΝΗΜΑΙ
ΚΑΙ (ΕΙΣ ΤΟΥΤΟ) ΕΛΗΛΥΘΑ ΕΙΣ ΤΟΝ ΚΟΣΜΟΝ ΙΝΑ ΜΑΡΤY-ΡΗΣΩ ΤΗ ΑΛΗΘΕΙΑ ΠΑΣ Ο ΩΝ EΚ ΤΗΣ ΑΛΗΘΕI-
ΑΣ ΑΚΟΥΕΙ ΜΟΥ ΤΗΣ ΦΩΝΗΣ ΛΕΓΕΙ ΑΥΤΩ
Ο ΠΙΛΑΤΟΣ ΤΙ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΛΗΘΕΙΑ ΚAΙ ΤΟΥΤO
ΕΙΠΩΝ ΠΑΛΙΝ ΕΞΗΛΘΕΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΥΣ ΙΟΥ-
ΔΑΙΟΥΣ ΚΑΙ ΛΕΓΕΙ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ ΕΓΩ ΟΥΔEΜΙΑΝ
ΕΥΡΙΣΚΩ ΕΝ ΑΥΤΩ ΑΙΤΙΑΝ

a King I am. For this I have been born
and (for this) I have come into the world so that I would
testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth
hears of me my voice." Said to him
Pilate, "What is truth?" and this
having said, again he went out unto the Jews
and said to them, "I find not one
fault in him."

You can listen to morons endlessly try to discredit the Bible, but for a moment, consider the text on this fragment and look at the words in a modern copy of the Bible. Marvel at the transmission of these words for 2000 years. It makes people shut up.

If you would suggest the Bible has been altered, on what grounds should I consider the Nag Hammurabi or Dead Sea scrolls?

34

Bart Ehrman...Jesus Existed

by XJW4EVR in

when the uber-liberal, agnostic bart ehrman says it...it must be true.. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bart-d-ehrman/did-jesus-exist_b_1349544.html.

robB

Nuts!!!

The NT manuscript evidence undebatedly supports 1st century authorship. Start with the John Rylands papyrus and compare that to anything from antiquity, then consider the additional thousands of pieces of MS evidence coming from commentaries quoting the NT from the 2nd - 5th centuries. Arguing against it is as narrowminded as a JW denying the prophecies of CTR. Reread the Gospels. It's in your face. Everywhere you can find the names, places and events supporting the messiahship of Jesus. You can't heal people that do not exist. That Paul's point in Acts in his trial with Agrippa (26:26).

You can decide not to be grateful to God but you cannot deny that God has left enough physical evidence to reasonably put your faith in his Son.

You people's problem is that you are so used to someone lying to you, you cannot tell when someone is telling the truth. And the False Prophet wins.

32

How to Help Someone Leave - New Article

by jwfacts in

there have been a few threads asking how to help someone leave, and i get asked that regularly by email.

i have posted a new article at http://jwfacts.com/watchtower/helping-someone-leave.php.

please feel free to offer any suggestions or point out any errors.

robB

Well done!

9

Is it really "THERE"? Why Armageddon never comes

by Terry in

i think the witness mind looks at armageddon the same way everybody else looks out into the distance at the horizon line.. .

it appears to be solidly, irrevocably there.

but, as you sail forward faster and faster approaching that horizon you never gain even.

robB

My theological position accepts a fulfillment for the Armageddon prophecy. I start with literal expectations first (just a method, not a doctrine). You know like, the Israel literally went into Egypt and then literally left. Moses said one like him was coming. The king of the Israelites would come from Judah. Etc. And since the people of Israel are back in the land of Israel, things are still looking pretty good for me.

I'm also betting that the 144K are actually unmarried Jewish men who will preach to the Jewish people so that the prophecy concerning Zechariah 12:10 is fulfilled which also ties up some lose ends Paul talks about in Romans. Don't forget the Jews. God doesn't. And when he makes unconditional promises, he keeps them.

Some folks will wonder how it could happen that the whole world could be gathered against Israel. Think about what will happen in Israel attacks Iran and gasoline gets rationed? I'm not saying this is how it will happen but it makes you think.

If the GB paid real close attention, they'd see that the person talking in Zech 12 is Jehovah Jesus.