Posts by Nitty-Gritty

48

Marc O'Donell's statement: Lloyd and the conflict of Interest

by Diogenesister in

as expected from a man who prioritizes the most vulnerable members of our community, marc has made a sober statement that explains why there's a deep conflict of interest between lloyds recent behaviour and the work they do at jw watch.

you can read it here:.

public statement of mark o’donnell.

Nitty-Gritty

NonCoinColector
It is still up to the Adult, in this case Mr. jle1979gobbler, to tell the 14 year-old to stop.

Why would he tell her to stop? They were both on that website for the same reason. I think what you meant to say was if he had been an adult with a working moral conscience like yours, or as "Sea Breeze" calls it family values, he would not have been on that website in the first place.

Yes "Sea Breeze", not everyone is doing that stuff and is practicing, or being complacent about this kind of depravity, I never said that, but there is a very large majority that are, to a lesser or greater degree. On the whole, the world's morals are down the tube. You can't deny that. (And by the way, I did not give you a dislike).

48

Marc O'Donell's statement: Lloyd and the conflict of Interest

by Diogenesister in

as expected from a man who prioritizes the most vulnerable members of our community, marc has made a sober statement that explains why there's a deep conflict of interest between lloyds recent behaviour and the work they do at jw watch.

you can read it here:.

public statement of mark o’donnell.

Nitty-Gritty

Are you f**king serious?

Yes, I am very serious. I am not defending Lloyd's actions if that's what you think. I am just being realistic. As a 14 year old girl I knew how to flirt and turn men's heads. Have you never heard of Nabokov's Lolita? And have you not heard of young girls being called jailbait? They are called that for a reason.

I found more information: I have just read the dialog between Lloyd and the girl. She was on a sex website, showing pictures of herself (She was not a Witness as I had thought). Do you think she didn't know what she was doing flirting with Lloyd? Nobody forced her to be on that site, she was bored at home and full of raging hormones. Nobody forced her to meet up with him either. And nobody forced her to give Lloyd oral sex. Gosh, I knew so many girls at my school (yes, aged 14) who would do just that behind the bike shed.

Like I said, I am in no way condoning what Lloyd did, it is despicable. But to talk about the girl as if she was totally unaware of what was going on is not true. Some people are even saying she needs support, like if she was a rape victim. You can't rape the willing. Let's just be realistic about this.

By the way the age consent in Germany is 14. So really, the law was only broken because the age of consent in the UK is 16. If this had happened in Germany there would be no case.

So why am I saying all this? It’s because of this false pretend morality some of these accusers have. It’s like watching a witch hunt by those who are witches themselves. No one should be surprised at any of this since the world’s morals have sunk so low. Not until everyone gets a real moral compass is the actual core of a worldwide problem going to be fixed.

And yes, I definitely agree that someone like Lloyd should not represent CSA victims. That is the height of hypocrisy. And if I was a survivor and found this out about Lloyd I would be infuriated. He’s a disgusting pervert.

48

Marc O'Donell's statement: Lloyd and the conflict of Interest

by Diogenesister in

as expected from a man who prioritizes the most vulnerable members of our community, marc has made a sober statement that explains why there's a deep conflict of interest between lloyds recent behaviour and the work they do at jw watch.

you can read it here:.

public statement of mark o’donnell.

Nitty-Gritty

I have a question.

You're all talking about grooming the girl (she was 14 right) and about her being a victim. Pardon my ignorance and correct me if I'm wrong, since I don't know anything about the circumstances. Was this not a case that the girl had a crush on Lloyd and he encouraged it? Some girls are already very mature physically at that age and also are not backward about sex. In fact their hormones are raging. A guy of any age surely might feel flattered if a female likes him.

Knowing about Lloyd's lack of moral restraint I can see he would not hold back reciprocating. So I'm not sure this would be called grooming.

(Or it could be the other way around too. The girl may have felt flattered if she felt Lloyd liked her, and her lack of moral restraint let her reciprocate).

24

Freaky, unsettling, unnerving comment from Losch in his AGM talk

by FFGhost in

did anybody else catch it?.

he said that people who come back in the earthly resurrection would be given a body "reasonably similar" to the one they had prior to death.. what the almighty hootch?.

"similar"?.

Nitty-Gritty

Unfortunate choice of words.

In reality though, when anything is reconstructed, especially when not using the previous material, then by default it cannot be said it's exactly the same.

A case in point: your atoms which your body was made up of before you died may no longer be available for use, since they will be part of other things by now, and even some other people. (body decomposes, vegetation absorbs part of that through the roots, a cow eats the grass, you eat the cow, et voila, you have a bit of Bob in your big toe.) This is of course true of everyone. No one is composed of exactly the same atoms they had when they were born. In fact everyone is "recycled" many times during their lifetime.

9

Jane Doh Does an Excellent Rebuttal to 6 Screens of WT

by Newly Enlightened in

i thought this needed it's own thread.

.

https://youtu.be/d5hmwbiyjwc.

Nitty-Gritty

In the video she says that: “to say if you’re Christian you would not do what Lloyd did, that’s narcissistic”.

She is right. But it’s not about that. That is a view that implies that the mere label “Christian” makes them feel like they are on a moral high ground and prevents them from doing certain things. It does not prevent them. What prevents people from doing certain things is if they feel strongly about not wanting to hurt and disappoint someone, in this case God.

If you’re married but it’s just a label for you and you don’t really care about your wife’s/husband’s feelings, then you will do things that you know could hurt them if they found out. However, if you really love your wife/husband you would never want to do anything that would hurt them. Similarly, if you truly love your God, and don’t want to hurt him, then you will not put yourself deliberately in a situation where you might do something that you know your God would be upset about.

An atheist has no such regard for some supreme being, the only regard they might have is for said wife/husband. In the case under discussion, evidently atheist Lloyd didn’t even have that.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Nitty-Gritty

One of the things that got me was when he said that his wife discovered a "photo" and then some time later he goes to Thailand to "figure things out". How did he think he was going to figure things out visiting prostitutes?

As many on here have said, he is not doing the exjw community any favors (by the way I'm a jw). I can see how cult like many of the exjws are by their applauding comments, all in full sympathy (not on this forum) with him. It seems that they have left the jws only to find themselves another leader to follow. I feel sorry for them. They think they were blinded by the WT, and now they are allowing themselves to be blinded by this obviously narcissistic manipulator.

I've never met the man personally, but I may have bumped into him at an assembly because we were in the same circuit.

I think he's done so well for himself in activism because he has the gift of the gab, that's for sure. But, I also think he's been using this avenue to stroke his narcissistic ego and to shift blame. At the expense of vulnerable people.

Somebody mentioned he is a spoiled brat. This really rings true. I have seen this kind of behavior, blame shifting, rationalizing, and it usually comes from those who feel entitled.

I agree that there are some who have been treated badly and unfairly by the org. But I don't think that has ever been his case. He was rightly disfelowshipped for repeated sexual misconduct, which as he has now proved is an intrinsic part of his makeup, although he blames WT for it. (I can just picture his arrogant attitude at the JC). Just keep blame shifting.

He is a whiney baby who needs to get himself a proper job. Or if he wanted to use his specific talent, he should have gone some other direction, like a Joe Rogan thing.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Nitty-Gritty

The WTS didn't make them who they were, the WTS contained them for a while.

You've hit the nail on the head.

15

Transparency Questions

by Vanderhoven7 in

here are some questions to ask witnesses.

how would you alter or improve or add to them?.

transparency questions.

Nitty-Gritty

@ Vanderhoven

"Here are some questions to ask Witnesses"

I realise you were not actually asking a Witness to answer these questions, but since you posted them and I am a Witness I will go ahead and answer them. Answers in bold:

TRANSPARENCY QUESTIONS
1.How confident are you that your religion is true?

Confident

Do you ever have doubts about your religion?
No

Are there any issues about your religion that trouble you? Or is it all good?
Some trouble me

Do you see your religion as being the only religion that God approves of?
When I look at other religions (not individuals in that religion) then the answer is yes.

2. Would you say that all other religions are essentially satanic or part of Satan's kingdom?

Yes

Do you believe that Jehovah God rejected all other churches at some point in history?
Yes

When do you believe God rejected all of Christendom? What year? How do you know this?
When Christianity apostacized from the true church by becoming "a part of the world" and at other occasions when they went directly against the teachings of Christ, and when they began incorporating philosophies and beliefs that were not established by Jesus. It was a process, so its difficult to establish an exact year, but by reading good history books on the subject one can get a general idea. This also answers the question: "How do you know this".

What do you think will happen to people belonging to churches other than yours at if they are alive at Armageddon?
It’s up to God
God will be a righteous judge and reads hearts, he will know if that person may have embraced the truth but the timing was off.

3. Do you believe, that with rare exceptions, only faithful JWs will survive Armageddon?
Don’t know

Do you believe Jehovah will destroy billions of people at Armageddon?
Possibly, since the Bible speaks of only a minority being on the road to life.

Do you believe that the Non-Witnesses God destroys will have no hope of a resurrection?
Probably, since why would he kill them and then bring them back again. But I don't know.

What if these same Non-JWs die a few years before Armageddon...might they get a resurrection?

The Bible says that unrighteous will get resurrected so probably yes.

Do you think its fair that God would eternally destroy people simply based on the timing of their death?

Of course not, this is why I said what I did in the last part of question 2

4. Would you say that Witnesses are free to question and even disagree with what comes down from your religion's headquarters?

Witnesses are free to disagree.

What would happen if a Witness vocalized disagreement with a particular teaching?
What if they persisted in disagreement? Might they be disfellowshipped?

If they are very disruptive and vocal about it then probably.

5. To your knowledge, is there some valid or honorable way out of your religion?
Fading

What would be the repercussions if you left the Witnesses?
Depending how it was done. If you faded, very little.

Would you be shunned?
Not if you faded

Would you shun a family member who left your religion because they no longer believe it to be true?

No

Do you think there could be many Witnesses who no longer believe Watchtower religion to be true
but pretend they still believe so they can keep their families intact?

Possibly

6. Do you think that your religion disfellowships and shuns people for solely biblical reasons?
Mostly

Do you consider unrepentant celebration of birthdays to be a biblical disfellowshipping offense?
No

Do you believe unrepentant accepting of blood transfusions is a disfellowshipping offense?
Yes

7. In a dire medical emergency would you refuse a blood transfusion that could save your child's life?

Difficult question to answer. Not sure

Would you allow some blood components to be transfused?

Yes

Which components does the Bible say are acceptable and which ones are not?

The Bible talks about whole blood, not components

Do you know if Jehovah's Witnesses have been consistent in determining allowable components?

Probably not been consistent.

Why is plasma unacceptable when all components are individually on the WT acceptable list?

Good question

How about white blood cells (Leukocytes)? Do you know that millions are passed in mother's milk and
during organ transplants which are now acceptable to the Society?

It's a case of blood transfusion, not a case of natural processes such feeding on mother's milk. And just because Leukocytes may be present in an organ transplant....well it's is the same as eating a steak where there will always be some blood present.

Do you believe it is wrong for Christians to donate blood to blood-banks? (storing blood is sinful)
Yes. Not because storing blood is sinful, but because of what is done with that stored blood.

Is storing blood temporarily for testing purposes immoral?

No, it is not stored to be used in another person. After the test is finished the blood is discarded

Where do Witnesses with hemophilia get their blood-clotting components from? (blood banks) Is it proper or moral to benefit from immorally donated blood? Aren't JWs being parasites?
It is only immoral for a Christian to donate blood. Whether they use some fractions of blood from blood that others have donated is up to them.

8. If you somehow lost faith in your religion's primary leadership, would you lose your faith in God and the Bible?

No

Do you believe that your faith is primarily in God and His word? (II TIM.3:16)

Yes

Is it possible, without realizing it, that your faith is predominantly in men and not God or the Bible?
Not my case, but I can see that it could happen in some cases.

Can your leaders correct you and change your mind about what the Bible teaches?
Possibly, but ultimately you decide

Can the Bible ever correct you and change your mind contrary to what your leaders teach?
Possibly, but ultimately you decide.

If I told you I only accept what a Bible scholar says the Bible teaches; would my faith ultimately be in the Bible or in the scholar?
Trick question. You would have to do your own research to see if what Bible scholar says the Bible teaches, is actually true. But it's all about interpretation, isn't it? Bible scholar and I can both understand a subject differently.

9. Do you believe that the gospel Jehovah's Witnesses preach is the same gospel that Paul preached?

Closer than any other religion

Gal.1:6-9 NWT Would it be legitimate for Christians to preach something beyond what Paul preached?
No

Can you summarize the gospel that Jehovah's Witnesses are preaching?

Repentance and the Good News of the Kingdom

Imagine I've got 5 minutes to live... and I ask you how can I get right with God, have my sins all
forgiven and be granted eternal life?
The fact that you want to get right with God means God will give you the opportunity to do so in the resurrection.

What would Paul say to this dying person? (Acts 16:30-31, I Cor.15:1-4)
You want me to say: “believe in Jesus”. However, you are misusing Paul's words in this instance because you and I both know that "belief" in something is based on more than just a five minute decision. In order for that belief to be genuine it would have to be backed up by action, which in this case would be impossible. Asking someone to believe is a very superficial demonstration of faith, and Paul did not have that in mind judging by the rest of his writings. Imagine you are an atheist, and you know nothing much about Jesus or the Bible, you just know people believe in a God. Now you have 5 minutes to decide you believe in Jesus. You might as well be asked to believe in the flying Spaghetti Monster. A dying person will believe in anything.

Do you believe that people today, can be saved or justified and have God's approval without any
affiliation with your religious organization? (criteria)

It is not for me to say. God is the judge.

10. Do you believe that some of the original Great Crowd members will be alive when Armageddon strikes?

Probably not

What year did the Great Crowd begin forming? (Not sure) Was it sometime after 1914? (Yes)

Don't care

When did the Watchtower first realize that the great company was forming? (1935)
How did they discover this? Who informed the Watchtower that this group was forming?

No one informed them. It became a logical conclusion since the number of Bible students outgrew 144 K

If the Great Crowd started forming in 1920, how old would the youngest member be today?
Pretty old

11. Do you believe that Jehovah has promised to usher in a safe and secure new world before the 1914 generation expires?
It's on Jehovah's timetable and no one else, except Jesus knows.

How is it possible to maintain that Jesus was teaching that the 1914 generation would not pass away?

It's obvious that we have not understood this correctly.

How old are babies born in 1914 today? (107)

If the generation Jesus spoke about would "surely" not pass away, you think He would be talking about a thriving number within that generation – don't you think?

Sure, according to man's interpretation.

Can you explain what Jesus meant by "this generation"? (hutos genaea) (overlapping)

No

Can you show where Matthew or any other gospel writer employs a similar meaning?

Not sure what is meant by this question. Is the question about an "overlapping" generation? If yes, then none of the Gospel writers spoke about an "overlapping" generation. However they did speak about contemporaries. Luke 9:41, 11:32, 17:25

In the case of WT comprehension, the generation Jesus was talking about refers to contemporaries of actual people who were anointed before 1914. So, if my great grandma remembered the first world war, and I listened to her stories about it as a child, although she is long dead, I am supposedly her contemporary....

12. Do you believe that less than 150,000 faithful Christians existed prior to the 20th century?
(From 33 A.D. to 1900 A.D.)

What about the millions who were martyred for Christ during this time frame?

It is estimated that 2 million Christians were martyred in the first 3 centuries.

Were these mostly fake Christians? (must have been)

How can you judge when you don't know them?

Can't. This is why God will be the judge, and the number of 144 000 could possibly be symbolic.

6

Article: Passing the Time By Firing Back at Jehovah’s Witnesses — With Letters

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/arts/under-the-sun-why-a-local-woman-wants-to-nail-the-jehovahs-witnesses-11545704.

kayleigh had run out of postage stamps and was waiting for new ones to arrive.

it was slowing her assault on a local congregation of jehovah’s witnesses.. she pointed to a stack of letters she’d already written to what she liked to call “the jws.”.