Posts by Nitty-Gritty

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

Nitty-Gritty

@loveuni

- imagine being a parent with a child in the late 80s (roughly the time when BCG was being abused). Your child alleges a brother abused him/her. Would you not immediately go to the police?

That's the thing, many people didn't! And I am not talking about JWs

Just read the interim report, and you will have answers to all your questions

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/about-us/our-reports/interim-report-volume-1-final-020714_lr_web

Yes, I'm aware that the Commission was set up to look into many organisations. However, at the moment the focus is on the WTS. When other organisations come under scrutiny, I'll post comments about that.

They already looked at 28,the WTS is the 29th case

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

Nitty-Gritty

@done4good

You keep dodging the real issue. Why does reporting need to be "mandatory" for it to be done in the first place? If the JW system and bible are truly morally superior, this reporting in the interest of children's protection should be a given. Why does the WT only comply when required? Answer that and stop evading the real issue.

Because the question is about a second party (elders) reporting. But regardless of whether it is mandatory or not, the victim/parents are free to report it whenever they want. Obviously.

47

A few facts to ponder

by Nitty-Gritty in

i have been in correspondence recently with silentambs and a few interesting things have been highlighted.

some of you may know, that bill bowen has twice tried to get the fbi involved in investigating child molestation issues in the jws org.

this is what he said to me, i quote: we have reported to the fbi on two occasions and were rebuffed due to them not wishing to get involved with a religion.

Nitty-Gritty

@ saintberthold

adopting a neutral tone except where it directly conflicts with the objectives of the state.

In other words the government does not care about child abuse right? Wrong. IF JWs were involved in criminal activity as you all insinuate then staying out of religions way would go out of the window.

but with conjecture there is the difficulty of probable cause

you've hit the nail on the head. All the discussions and criticism of how JWs handle child abuse are based on conjecture. And it is because of conjecture the government won't do anything.

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

Nitty-Gritty

@loveuni

P.S.

Why must elders who receive allegations of child abuse first notify the Legal Department, not the police?

To make sure they don't screw up like have done in the past. (and I mean that in the interest of the children, not the perpetrators). In any case, there is nothing stopping elders reporting to the Legal Department and the police simultaneously if reporting is mandatory.

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

Nitty-Gritty

@ loveuni

then why has the WTS played by its own rules - the two witness rule? - and not made informing the police the top priority?

Nobody in those days made informing the police a top priority. If you read up on the interim report you will get a better idea of what situation existed, and still exists in society on the whole regarding child abuse, which are the reasons for action by the RC in the first place.

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/about-us/our-reports/interim-report-volume-1-final-020714_lr_web

what makes an allegation worthy of a report? - are you really asking this question? Do you have children of your own?

No, I was not asking that question, I was saying the lawmakers might be asking that question.

47

A few facts to ponder

by Nitty-Gritty in

i have been in correspondence recently with silentambs and a few interesting things have been highlighted.

some of you may know, that bill bowen has twice tried to get the fbi involved in investigating child molestation issues in the jws org.

this is what he said to me, i quote: we have reported to the fbi on two occasions and were rebuffed due to them not wishing to get involved with a religion.

Nitty-Gritty

@ Memphis are you saying the FBI are "afraid" of religious institutions more than they are of the government? Because the FBI has investigated government insiders. There is nothing stopping the FBI from investigating WTS insiders. Or are you saying that they do not have the power to investigate a serious allegation? Do you think they could not find a legal loophole allowing them to do an investigation if they thought it was necessary?

47

A few facts to ponder

by Nitty-Gritty in

i have been in correspondence recently with silentambs and a few interesting things have been highlighted.

some of you may know, that bill bowen has twice tried to get the fbi involved in investigating child molestation issues in the jws org.

this is what he said to me, i quote: we have reported to the fbi on two occasions and were rebuffed due to them not wishing to get involved with a religion.

Nitty-Gritty

sir 82 don't twist my words. I never said they accept child abuse, I said they accept it is a problem.

As for Bill Bowen, you better say that to all his fans, most of who are victims of child abuse.

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

Nitty-Gritty

@ Mad

Yes, you are right, it is not up to the elders to determine whether the allegation has substance. What I was trying to say was that if an actual law is passed, where it is not an option to report or not to report (and I mean by anyone, even the victim, and not just JW) such as it is with murder, where would the RC draw the line, if anywhere?

47

A few facts to ponder

by Nitty-Gritty in

i have been in correspondence recently with silentambs and a few interesting things have been highlighted.

some of you may know, that bill bowen has twice tried to get the fbi involved in investigating child molestation issues in the jws org.

this is what he said to me, i quote: we have reported to the fbi on two occasions and were rebuffed due to them not wishing to get involved with a religion.

Nitty-Gritty

@ Memphis

By gaining access to documents they can do both, highlight institutional failure and civil negligence AND focus on individual offenders. They have done it before. The question is, why do they not want to do that?

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

Nitty-Gritty

@ loveuni

Suppose the Commission hands the following rule to the WTS: regardless of whether there were two witnesses or not, regardless of whether it is a reporting state or not, if an elder receives an allegation of abuse he must immediately tell police before he does anything else.

Would this rule be in conflict with bible principles/rules?

Would the WTS happily comply with this?

I don't want to speak for the WTS, but it would seem that this would not conflict with Bible principles/rules as we are talking about a crime, and a crime should be reported to the Police.

Of course there is the issue of should every allegation be reported to the police, and what makes an allegation worthy of a report? This is a problem which secular authorities are working on, to reasonably figure out. It's complicated.