I don't see a conflict with the Bible, reporting an abuse to the police even if the family do not wish it disclosed. I reckon the new instructions to elders in Australia will be that if allegations are brought to their attention they will have to report it to the police....in which case they will also have to warn the congregation of this policy. Pretty much this is the case with disclosing to a trained professional, they have to warn the client/patient/victim that if they disclose they have been sexually molested, the counselor will have to tell the police, whether they like it or not. In any case, I don't see why governments cannot implement mandatory reporting in every country, in which case there would be no question whether the elders should report or not report. Simple really.
Nitty-Gritty
JoinedPosts by Nitty-Gritty
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An Obvious Contradiction Mr Stewart is Missing
by cofty inall jws on the stand have stuck to the same line that they have no problem with cooperating with mandatory reporting when state law requires it.. if the law does not require it then bible principles absolutely prevent them from taking away rights of the victim to report abuse to the police or not.. we have already heard from a jw rep a couple of days ago who proudly asserted that when the law conflicts with bible principle they will always obey the bible and quoted acts 5:29 "we must obey god rather than men".. please join the dots!.
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104
Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?
by Wasanelder Once inare you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?
do you feel personally vindicated by it?
do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?
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Nitty-Gritty
JW facs"It should not be relevant if it was as good as other churches at the time, since the religion touts being spirit directed".
Being spirit directed is one thing, but actually following the direction of the spirit is another.
Your strong defence is indication that internally you know the Governing Body are just men and their rules are man made, all of which is evidence that you are following just another religion.
I do believe the GB are just men, to believe anything else would be folly. But their rules are not man made (that's if you believe the Bible is not from man of course). -
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Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?
by Wasanelder Once inare you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?
do you feel personally vindicated by it?
do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?
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Nitty-Gritty
As posted by konceptual99
I am just wondering however if there are situations that have to come to light through places like this site where people have first hand experience of being disfellowshipped for going to the authorities about child abuse.
and
Are there reasons why the cases of unreported abuse you know about remain unreported? Are you or others you know in a position to support the victims in making a report now?I would be interested in having answers to this as well.
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A few facts to ponder
by Nitty-Gritty ini have been in correspondence recently with silentambs and a few interesting things have been highlighted.
some of you may know, that bill bowen has twice tried to get the fbi involved in investigating child molestation issues in the jws org.
this is what he said to me, i quote: we have reported to the fbi on two occasions and were rebuffed due to them not wishing to get involved with a religion.
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Nitty-Gritty
Haha, very funny @azor. The problem is I've go too much time on my hands. -
47
A few facts to ponder
by Nitty-Gritty ini have been in correspondence recently with silentambs and a few interesting things have been highlighted.
some of you may know, that bill bowen has twice tried to get the fbi involved in investigating child molestation issues in the jws org.
this is what he said to me, i quote: we have reported to the fbi on two occasions and were rebuffed due to them not wishing to get involved with a religion.
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Nitty-Gritty
@searcher
Nitty Gritty - If your wife/sister/daughter was raped by a fellow J.W., would you consult the elders first, or would you report it to the police?
Interested to see what your reasoning is, compared to those elders in Australia - and elswhere.
Well it can't be a wife, as I occupy that role. If it was my sister I would encourage her to go to the police, but I would respect her decision whether to go or not. I could not force her. But she would be obliged to go to the elders to report the sin/crime of a fellow believer. If she didn't go I would report it to the elders for her. If it was my daughter, and she was a minor, I would not need to consult with anyone. I would report the person to the elders and the police immediately, and not necessarily in that order.
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104
Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?
by Wasanelder Once inare you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?
do you feel personally vindicated by it?
do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?
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Nitty-Gritty
@loveuni
- imagine being a parent with a child in the late 80s (roughly the time when BCG was being abused). Your child alleges a brother abused him/her. Would you not immediately go to the police?
That's the thing, many people didn't! And I am not talking about JWs
Just read the interim report, and you will have answers to all your questions
Yes, I'm aware that the Commission was set up to look into many organisations. However, at the moment the focus is on the WTS. When other organisations come under scrutiny, I'll post comments about that.
They already looked at 28,the WTS is the 29th case
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104
Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?
by Wasanelder Once inare you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?
do you feel personally vindicated by it?
do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?
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Nitty-Gritty
@done4good
You keep dodging the real issue. Why does reporting need to be "mandatory" for it to be done in the first place? If the JW system and bible are truly morally superior, this reporting in the interest of children's protection should be a given. Why does the WT only comply when required? Answer that and stop evading the real issue.
Because the question is about a second party (elders) reporting. But regardless of whether it is mandatory or not, the victim/parents are free to report it whenever they want. Obviously.
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47
A few facts to ponder
by Nitty-Gritty ini have been in correspondence recently with silentambs and a few interesting things have been highlighted.
some of you may know, that bill bowen has twice tried to get the fbi involved in investigating child molestation issues in the jws org.
this is what he said to me, i quote: we have reported to the fbi on two occasions and were rebuffed due to them not wishing to get involved with a religion.
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Nitty-Gritty
@ saintberthold
adopting a neutral tone except where it directly conflicts with the objectives of the state.
In other words the government does not care about child abuse right? Wrong. IF JWs were involved in criminal activity as you all insinuate then staying out of religions way would go out of the window.
but with conjecture there is the difficulty of probable cause
you've hit the nail on the head. All the discussions and criticism of how JWs handle child abuse are based on conjecture. And it is because of conjecture the government won't do anything.
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104
Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?
by Wasanelder Once inare you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?
do you feel personally vindicated by it?
do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?
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Nitty-Gritty
@loveuni
P.S.
Why must elders who receive allegations of child abuse first notify the Legal Department, not the police?
To make sure they don't screw up like have done in the past. (and I mean that in the interest of the children, not the perpetrators). In any case, there is nothing stopping elders reporting to the Legal Department and the police simultaneously if reporting is mandatory.
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104
Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?
by Wasanelder Once inare you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?
do you feel personally vindicated by it?
do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?
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Nitty-Gritty
@ loveuni
then why has the WTS played by its own rules - the two witness rule? - and not made informing the police the top priority?
Nobody in those days made informing the police a top priority. If you read up on the interim report you will get a better idea of what situation existed, and still exists in society on the whole regarding child abuse, which are the reasons for action by the RC in the first place.
what makes an allegation worthy of a report? - are you really asking this question? Do you have children of your own?
No, I was not asking that question, I was saying the lawmakers might be asking that question.