When they claimed they were a representative for the F&DS and that they didn't even know who the F&DS were. Didn't sink in right away . . . actually took about two years, but the constant push to the 'publications published by the F&DS' and the 'obey the GB' mantras started to get annoying. When marital problems started in, I did all sorts of research into the 'scriptural reasons for divorce' and found continuous misapplications to Jesus' words, and strangely, three odd rules the WTS attached to Paul's words at 1 Cor. 7, that is, separation is permitted when there is 1) willful non-support, 2) spiritual endangerment, and 3) extreme physical abuse. None of these are supported by scripture. This just lead to one issue after another, and to me actually reading the Bible with the intent to read it without the WTS interpretation.
leaving_quietly
JoinedPosts by leaving_quietly
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If you were a Witness, when did you realize the Governing Body was apostate?
by matt2414 infor more than 30 years i believed everything that came from the watchtower society, especially since i lived at bethel for a while and i knew a lot of the gb members, who to me seemed intelligent and personable.
at the beginning, the emphasis was on the bible, the kingdom, jehovah and jesus.
but gradually over time, there would appear an elephant in the room that no one seemed to talk about, such as the change in the understanding of "generation.
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GB: "We don't know if Jehovah wants us to build new headquarters, but we're doing it anyway..."
by cedars inthe latest august 15th watchtower study edition features an interesting review of the society's annual meeting.. one comment struck me as evidence that the governing body isn't quite as "discreet" as it claims.. here is what the article said:.
"there are plans to develop a 248-acre (100 ha) property at warwick.
'although we are not yet certain of jehovahs will regarding warwick,' said brother pierce, 'we are proceeding to develop the site with the intention of relocating the world headquarters of jehovahs witnesses there.
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leaving_quietly
Literally, the conversation with my wife last night . . . (background: we live in a mobile home)
Me: "I don't want to live here for the rest of my life. We can afford something nicer."
Her: "Don't you have faith? Don't you believe the end is close?"
Me: "Faith? You're questioning my faith when the Society is selling off all their buildings in Brooklyn and building an entire new complex? If they can do it, why can't I?"
That went over like a ton of bricks.
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MAT 24:14 HAS BEEN FULLFILLED MP3 FROM BETHEL HEAVY
by What-A-Coincidence inwarning: the wtbts is becoming more cultish as evidenced in this mp3.
listener take heed.
turn on all your cult warning alarms on.. .
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leaving_quietly
*** w95 9/1 pp. 17-18 par. 17 Christian Witnesses for Divine Sovereignty ***
Still, that first-century preaching work was merely a foretaste of what would be accomplished during the last days. Looking forward especially to our time, Jesus said: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14; Mark 13:10) Has this prophecy been fulfilled? Indeed, it has. -
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Blood Policy: Punishment?
by garbonzo ini have no idea what happens to those who take blood transfusions.
this i don't think, is never made clear at the meetings.
do they get disfellowshipped or reproved or is it a conscience matter or what?.
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leaving_quietly
A person who has one is considered to have DA'd him/herself, if I recall from the new elders book.
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How would you refute . . . ?
by leaving_quietly ini have an issue with preaching.
specifically, going door to door, talking to people who, for the most part, have no desire whatsoever to hear what i have to say.
more specifically, being required to do so as a means of salvation.
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leaving_quietly
So much to reconsider. Thanks!
@Knowsnothing: sound advice. Difficult to deal with, but sound. Thanks!
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How would you refute . . . ?
by leaving_quietly ini have an issue with preaching.
specifically, going door to door, talking to people who, for the most part, have no desire whatsoever to hear what i have to say.
more specifically, being required to do so as a means of salvation.
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leaving_quietly
Oh, and the one scripture that is rarely ever discussed in WT publications: Luke 21:8
"He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them."
And what does this past Sunday's study article say?
"Another way we can "sleep on" is by ignoring the fact that Jehovah's time to destroy the ungodly has approached."
If I didn't have family in, I would run.
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How would you refute . . . ?
by leaving_quietly ini have an issue with preaching.
specifically, going door to door, talking to people who, for the most part, have no desire whatsoever to hear what i have to say.
more specifically, being required to do so as a means of salvation.
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leaving_quietly
@leavingwt and @dontplaceliterature: I plan on it at some point (got a wife with some uber-conscience lately . . . this is not going to go well)
@Knowsnothing: I think the decades (er, century) of rhetoric about this is a bit much. Hearing it at every. single. meeting. is really old. Heard a talk recently about how Satan came in before Jehovah and insinutated that "everything that a man has he will give in behalf of his soul" (Job 2:4). The speaker said that this meant that Satan was saying that the only reason people serve God is because of what God does for them. He then said that we need to prove that we serve God because we love him. I agree with that, but that's not why we do it! We do it because we want everlasting life!!!!!! If there was no everlasting life at the end of all of this, then what would the point be? This is the constant carrot that's dangled in front of all JWs.
Having been raised as a JW, I never questioned it. For the most part, it all made sense to me. That is, until they changed the generation doctrine again in 2010 (I was apparently oblivious to the 1995 change . . . maybe I didn't read that particular issue.) Then, I started noticing just some really odd things. Like, in 2007, the FDS was responsible for all the "spiritual food". Then, in 2009, only the GB was responsible and that the GB had no clue who the FDS were. Wha...? That seems messed up to me. To this day, they still say the FDS is providing spiritual food, but that can't be since the GB said they were the ones who were responsible for it (somehow they claim to represent the FDS, but then they don't know who the FDS is . . . ?)
I started reading the Bible (read it once when I was in Bethel, but that's because I had to . . . part of the 1st year program). This time, I'm reading it with a desire to "get it", but I'm reading a different translation. When things don't match what I recall, I compare, then research using all sorts of sources. I'm discovering some pretty significant differences in translation and in understanding. Admittedly, some things, scholars can't even agree on, so there's no way there could be a single "truth". Some things, though, are pretty major for me. Lots of it has to do with going "beyond the things that are written." (1 Cor 4:6) The constant rule-making is maddening. When I was younger, many JWs did NOT go to college because of the rules. Then those rules were relaxed a little, but too late for folks in my age group. No retirement accounts now because so many could not get a decent job due to a lack of education. Now, the rules are back in place, and harder than ever, with threatening elders of removal if they or their family members go to college. Show me that in the Bible! Doesn't exist! So, I watch people like my parents who are getting up in years have little or no retirement. I wasn't supposed to graduate high school. I wasn't supposed to get married. I wasn't supposed to have a child. I wasn't supposed to have a child about to graduate high school. The new system was supposed to be here!!! And, now, over 25 years since my baptism, it's full circle. No going to college. Removal of privileges if you do. I understand the supposed reason (bad environment, temptations, etc.), but it would seem that 1 Cor 10:25-30 would have some place in here: "25 Everything that is sold in a meat market keep eating, making no inquiry on account of YOUR conscience; 26 for “to Jehovah belong the earth and that which fills it.” 27 If anyone of the unbelievers invites YOU and YOU wish to go, proceed to eat everything that is set before YOU, making no inquiry on account of YOUR conscience. 28 But if anyone should say to YOU: “This is something offered in sacrifice,” do not eat on account of the one that disclosed it and on account of conscience. 29 “Conscience,” I say, not your own, but that of the other person. For why should it be that my freedom is judged by another person’s conscience? 30 If I am partaking with thanks, why am I to be spoken of abusively over that for which I give thanks?"
I'm ranting. Sorry. Waking up. Can't talk to family about this. They shut down as soon as I make mention of something that doesn't seem quite right. Trying to figure out what to do next.
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How would you refute . . . ?
by leaving_quietly ini have an issue with preaching.
specifically, going door to door, talking to people who, for the most part, have no desire whatsoever to hear what i have to say.
more specifically, being required to do so as a means of salvation.
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leaving_quietly
Thanks for all the replies. Mostly, these are what I have already gathered from my own research. Predictions aside (yes, I know, hard to put aside . . . I struggle with this, too), JWs have been diligent about "keeping awake". How does one respond to: "at least we're trying"? I have to ask: what if they're right? What if the end really is "right around the corner"? What if it's not this year, or even next year? Luke 24:43: "But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 On this account YOU too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming." I feel like if it happened, I'd be like the guy in that song by Alanis Morissette, "Isn't it ironic?" who was afraid to fly, and on his first flight, the plane went down. How does one refute this?
Most JWs would respond with this (including one side of my brain): 2 Pet. 3:3, 4, "For YOU know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning" It's like there's a scripture cherry-picked for everything!
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How would you refute . . . ?
by leaving_quietly ini have an issue with preaching.
specifically, going door to door, talking to people who, for the most part, have no desire whatsoever to hear what i have to say.
more specifically, being required to do so as a means of salvation.
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leaving_quietly
I have an issue with preaching. Specifically, going door to door, talking to people who, for the most part, have no desire whatsoever to hear what I have to say. More specifically, being REQUIRED to do so as a means of salvation. I do not personally believe formal preaching is a responsibility of every Christian. I do believe that a Christian should talk about his/her beliefs as they are so moved. There are a number of scriptures that come to mind that support my point of view. However, there are also a number of scriptures that come to mind to support the view that all Christians should be involved in preaching formally. I believe this to be a contradiction, and am very frustrated by the constant 'you must preach' mantra.
In support of not everyone preaching:
Eph 4:11 - And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers,James 3:1 - Not many of YOU should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgmentIn support of preaching (some paraphrased to give the supposed reasoning):
Eze 3:17-21 - warning someone wicked
Rom 10:14,15 - how, in turn will they hear without someone to preach?
1 Tim 4:16 - Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Stay by these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.
Luke 19:40 - I tell YOU, If these remained silent, the stones would cry out.
2 Tim 4:2 - preach the word, be at it urgently in favorable season, in troublesome season, reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all long-suffering and [art of] teachingAny thoughts?
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So,.......What Do They Do Next?
by metatron inwhat do recent events tell us?
well, the special talk seemed utterly directed at getting lapsed witnesses back into the cult.
"jehovah wants you back......".
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leaving_quietly
#3 has already been stated
w95 p17 par 17
"Still, that first-century preaching work was merely a foretaste of what would be accomplished during the last days. Looking forward especially to our time, Jesus said: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14; Mark 13:10) Has this prophecy been fulfilled? Indeed, it has."