Thank you for this.
leaving_quietly
JoinedPosts by leaving_quietly
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CHRIST'S BROTHERS
by The Searcher inrepetitition for emphasis!
(couldn't repair original post - sorry).
who are christ's brothers?.
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Need article about looking to the slave rather than Christ for salvation
by Bonnie_Clyde ini thought there was something recently.
clyde says he needs it soon to show a friend, and i don't know where to find it.
can i get it off jw.org ?
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leaving_quietly
marked
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The context of Genesis 3:15
by pixel ini just want to share my thoughts on genesis 3:15.. we all know the position of the wt/gb/fds on this, that the woman represents heavenly organization (with annointeds, of course), the serpent satan and everybody that is bad.. but to me, the context says other thing.. god is cursing the man, the woman, and the serpent.. first, he starts with the serpent, and give it a pretty mundane curse: you are going to crawl.
and will have hostility with woman's offspring.. then the woman: you will feel pain when giving birth.. then the man: you are going to work hard.. from this curses, you can read they were pretty mundane.
simple put, they were curses.
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leaving_quietly
mP: I think you misunderstood my post. Those paragraphs were directly quoted from the Insight book for the benefit of Vanderhoven7 who wanted to see what the OP stated in print. I simply copied the relevant paragraphs and underlined the one that makes the statement. The others are there for context. If anyone made assumptions, it was WTS.
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The context of Genesis 3:15
by pixel ini just want to share my thoughts on genesis 3:15.. we all know the position of the wt/gb/fds on this, that the woman represents heavenly organization (with annointeds, of course), the serpent satan and everybody that is bad.. but to me, the context says other thing.. god is cursing the man, the woman, and the serpent.. first, he starts with the serpent, and give it a pretty mundane curse: you are going to crawl.
and will have hostility with woman's offspring.. then the woman: you will feel pain when giving birth.. then the man: you are going to work hard.. from this curses, you can read they were pretty mundane.
simple put, they were curses.
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leaving_quietly
@Vanderhoven7 - ask and you shall receive...
it-2 p. 1198
The “woman” of Genesis 3:15. At the time that he sentenced humankind’s parents, Adam and Eve, God gave the promise of a seed that would be brought forth by the “woman,” and who would crush the serpent’s head. (Ge 3:15) Here was a “sacred secret” that God purposed to reveal in his due time. (Col 1:26) Some factors in the circumstances existing at the time of the prophetic promise provide clues as to the ‘woman’s’ identity. Since her seed was to crush the serpent’s head, he would have to be more than a human seed, for the Scriptures show that it was not to a literal snake on the ground that God’s words were aimed. The “serpent” is shown at Revelation 12:9 to be Satan the Devil, a spirit person. Consequently, the “woman” of the prophecy could not be a human woman, such as Mary the mother of Jesus. The apostle sheds light on the matter at Galatians 4:21-31.—See SEED.
In this passage the apostle speaks of Abraham’s free wife and of his concubine Hagar and says that Hagar corresponds to the literal city of Jerusalem under the Law covenant, her “children” being the citizens of the Jewish nation. Abraham’s wife Sarah, Paul says, corresponds to “the Jerusalem above,” who is the spiritual mother of Paul and his spirit-begotten associates. This heavenly “mother” would be also the “mother” of Christ, who is the oldest among his spiritual brothers, all of whom spring from God as their Father.—Heb 2:11, 12; see FREE WOMAN.
It would follow logically and in harmony with the Scriptures that the “woman” of Genesis 3:15 would be a spiritual “woman.” And corresponding to the fact that the “bride,” or “wife,” of Christ is not an individual woman, but a composite one, made of many spiritual members (Re 21:9), the “woman” who brings forth God’s spiritual sons, God’s ‘wife’ (prophetically foretold in the words of Isaiah and Jeremiah as cited in the foregoing), would be made up of many spiritual persons. It would be a composite body of persons, an organization, a heavenly one.
This “woman” is described in John’s vision, in Revelation chapter 12. She is shown as bringing forth a son, a ruler who is to “shepherd all the nations with an iron rod.” (Compare Ps 2:6-9; 110:1, 2.) This vision was given to John long after Jesus’ human birth and also after his anointing as God’s Messiah. Since it obviously has to do with the same person, it must have reference, not to Jesus’ human birth, but to some other event, namely, his being installed in Kingdom power. So the birth of God’s Messianic Kingdom was here pictured.
Satan is shown later as persecuting the “woman” and making war with “the remaining ones of her seed.” (Re 12:13, 17) The “woman” being heavenly, and Satan by this time being hurled down to the earth (Re 12:7-9), he could not reach those heavenly persons of whom the “woman” was made up, but he could reach the remaining ones of her “seed,” her children, the brothers of Jesus Christ still on earth. In that way he persecuted the “woman.”
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FREEDOM from human rules ? So how do jw's fit in with Colossians 2:13-23 then.
by *lost* in16 therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat and drink or with regard to a religious festival, a new moon celebration or a sabbath day.
17 these are a shadow of the things that were yet to come: the reality however is found in christ.
18 do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you.
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leaving_quietly
3 In reply he said to them: “Why is it YOU also overstep the commandment of God because of YOUR tradition? 4 For example, God said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Let him that reviles father or mother end up in death.’ 5 But YOU say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother: “Whatever I have by which you might get benefit from me is a gift dedicated to God,” 6 he must not honor his father at all.’ And so YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition. 7 YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” 10 With that he called the crowd near and said to them: “Listen and get the sense of it: 11 Not what enters into [his] mouth defiles a man; but it is what proceeds out of [his] mouth that defiles a man.” - Matt 15:3-11
Commands of men... like what?
Thou shalt not . . . celebrate birthdays
Thou shalt not . . . smoke
Thou shalt not . . . partake of the Lord's evening meal
Thou shalt . . . shun anyone who once was a JW but simply no longer wants to be one
And so on.
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Mormon's using the web to escape their cult.
by cantleave inhttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/us/some-mormons-search-the-web-and-find-doubt.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0.
when fellow believers in sweden first began coming to him with information from the internet that contradicted the churchs history and teachings, he dismissed it as anti-mormon propaganda, the whisperings of lucifer.
he asked his superiors for help in responding to the members doubts, and when they seemed to only sidestep the questions, mr. mattsson began his own investigation.. but when he discovered credible evidence that the churchs founder, joseph smith, was a polygamist and that thebook of mormon and other scriptures were rife with historical anomalies, mr. mattsson said he felt that the foundation on which he had built his life began to crumble.. around the world and in the united states, where the faith was founded, the mormon church is grappling with a wave of doubt and disillusionment among members who encountered information on the internet that sabotaged what they were taught about their faith, according to interviews with dozens of mormons and those who study the church.. i felt like i had an earthquake under my feet, said mr. mattsson, now an emeritus area authority.
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leaving_quietly
One older JW brought this up today to me. In typical JW fashion, he said, "now JWs really ARE the only ones going door-to-door!"
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How To Be Subversive While Knowing TTATT And Stuck Inside The Watchtower Corporation Confines?
by frankiespeakin inso you found out it is all bs but due to family and friends you don't want to be disfellowshipped and shunned.
you have to go to these rediculous meetings maybe even engage in corporation sponsored magazine drives to get the propaganda into the homes of your neighbor in hopes of making another corporation zombie mystified by childish magical thinking, of a jealous deity that wants you to work for the corporation finacial interest or else die for your lack of corporation loyalty.. it is a stressful sitiuation with all kinds of trip wires one has to beware of in order not to be heading into some back room kangaroo court where obediance to the almighty corporation is the bottom line, and a fair hearing of the facts is last on the list of importance.. one consolation is that one may eventually get friends and family out of this demanding and destructive cult with patients and passage of time.. so what ideas would you like to pass on to readers?
what are some of subversive activities one can engage in while stuck in this nasty bit of mandatory corporation exercises of preaching, selling, and building?.
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leaving_quietly
I think appearing as a real student (or better yet, BEING a real student) of the Bible is effective. I've had many conversations with elders and others about what I read IN THE BIBLE, such as comparing Paul's first-hand account of the meeting with the "governing body" with Luke's account. Why, for example, Paul had to go there. How long it took Paul to report to Jerusalem, and that Paul went, not to get a decision, but to tell them what was wrong, hoping he wasn't wasting his time. It's enlightening to casually discuss it after the meeting or out in field service, not in an accusatory way, but more of a, 'hey, I was reading this... check it out' sort of way.
I found one this morning I plan on doing the same thing with. Look up the word "robes" in Revelation 7 (note who wears them), then compare that to Revelation 22:14. You could even say: "I looked this up and such and such a Watchtower says this applies to anointed Christians, but that isn't what these verses say. I find it interesting, and a little confusing at the same time. What do you think?" Non-committal, non-accusatory, but just may get some brain cells to start firing.
The idea is to get them to THINK for themselves, not tell them what it is.
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There Is No 'Heavenly Hope'!
by The Searcher inpropitiatory sacrifice.
this is how christ's death is described three times in the scriptures.. the apostle john wrote, "the love is in this respect, not that we have loved god, but that he loved us and sent forth his son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.
" (1 john 4:10).
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leaving_quietly
Interesting finds in Revelation:
Rev 3:12: "“‘The one that conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine."
Rev 21:2,3: "I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them.
Rev 21:10: "So he carried me away in [the power of the] spirit to a great and lofty mountain, and he showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God"
Just sayin'...
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Wow did not see that coming.
by msconcerned inso for a while now i have had some doubts and i have slowly started and had conversations with my wife.
she has kind of conceded very minor points in our conversations, but what i have been seeing is that she is starting to use her brain.
im not insulting my wife, but she is starting to think critically.
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leaving_quietly
I've been tactfully dropping this one on my wife. When I made mention of it recently, she asked: "Are you saying Witnesses aren't loving?" I said to her (because she was in a situation where she had to decide whether to show love or not to someone in need or go in service): "Sometimes, you have to forgo service to show love to others." Unfortunately, she chose service over love. I do keep mentioning it, though, ever so tactfully, just so that maybe something will sink in.
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My Study: "Did a 'Governing Body' govern Paul?"
by Doug Mason in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><![endif].
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leaving_quietly
Thanks, Doug, looking forward to reading it, particularly your views on Acts 21:25 where it says "rendering our decision", when in Acts 15:19, James says "my decision". The use of the word "decision" seems appropriate, for the Greek word does carry that meaning, as it also does "judgement". I think that if Acts 21:25 did not say that, WTS would not have any leg to stand on. It can easily be proved that Paul went to Jerusalem at the behest of holy spirit (if not Christ himself, but the Bible doesn't say, only as a result of a revelation), not to get a decision, but to tell the apostles and older men how things actually were. Anyway, looking forward to reading your study.