Posts by leaving

32

Watchtower Oct 15 2014

by Listener in

the october watchtower 2014 is now up on jw org.

regarding the new covenant they write.

the governing body sets the scene in the first article by stating how they are like jesus and as humans they are sinless in god's eyes.. then on page 24 they state this.

leaving_quietly

The articles about covenants were, of course, a rehash of what has already been stated in years past. But, there's a major flaw in the teaching that we're all aware of but deserves repeating:

The "new covenant" that is supposedly only between Jehovah and the 144,000 leaves out millions of other people. THERE IS NO COVENANT BETWEEN GOD AND MOST OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, according to their teaching. This is very unlike the nation of Israel, whom the covenant was with ALL of Israel AND the foreigners among them (Read Deut 29).

The "new covenant" doctrine of WTBTS is SERIOUSLY flawed. There is not one verse that can be pointed to to say that the new covenant is only between God and the 144,000. Not one. Go ahead. Look it up. Not a single verse. In fact, on page 15, paragraph 8, the very passage they use to sort of prove this concept actually disproves it:

"He could also adopt certain devoted humans “as sons” by anointing them with holy spirit. (Read Romans 8:14-17.)"

Romans 8:14-17 says: For all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons. For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!” The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs—heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ—provided we suffer together so that we may also be glorified together.

For you lurkers, if the WTBTS doctrine is true, then you are NOT led by God's spirit. Otherwise, WTBTS doctrine CANNOT BE TRUE if you actually ARE led by God's spirit.

62

Name Some Things That JWs Look Down Upon That Normal People Wouldn't Even Think About?

by minimus in

jw
friends

jws look down on others for saying, "bless you" if someone sneezes.

it has something to do with the demons.

another example is that it is considered satanic if a man took his hat off for a lady!

leaving_quietly

Be a young person in the Kingdom Hall and announce "I've been accepted to Harvard", and see how many elders congratulate you. You would be lucky to leave the meeting without a backroom inquisition.

Let me add something with the same words:

Be a young person in the Kingdom Hall and announce "I've been anointed", and see how many elders congratulate you. You would be lucky to leave the meeting without a backroom inquisition.

148

Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

by cofty in

the following is an extract from something i wrote 16 years ago soon after leaving the watchtower.

i am posting it because it may help honest jws consider how far their beliefs are at odds with new testament christians.

if they have "the truth" then their attitude to jesus ought to reflect that of the apostles.

leaving_quietly

marking... not sure how I missed this. I only read the OP. As far as worshipping Jesus, Daniel gives us the idea that such worship is actually acceptable:

Daniel 7:13-14: "I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin."

Note the Hebrew definition of the word for "serve" here: http://biblehub.com/hebrew/6399.htm

56

Is this a new "This Generation" or not?

by Doug Mason in

first of all i want to express my sincere gratitude to atlantis and his good friends for making this 2014 book available.. ------------.

as i see it, and i am absolutely open to contradiction, the wts appears to be giving another new meaning to this generation.

this time the term means all of his anointed followers, including his immediate disciples.

leaving_quietly

The "anointed" bit was introduced in w1/15 p. 27-31 pars. 15,16:

15 In his detailed prophecy about the conclusion of this system of things, Jesus said: “This generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” (Read Matthew 24:33-35.) We understand that in mentioning “this generation,” Jesus was referring to two groups of anointed Christians. The first group was on hand in 1914, and they readily discerned the sign of Christ’s presence in that year. Those who made up this group were not merely alive in 1914, but they were spirit-anointed as sons of God in or before that year.—Rom. 8:14-17.

16 The second group included in “this generation” are anointed contemporaries of the first group. They were not simply alive during the lifetime of those in the first group, but they were anointed with holy spirit during the time that those of the first group were still on earth. Thus, not every anointed person today is included in “this generation” of whom Jesus spoke. Today, those in this second group are themselves advancing in years. Yet, Jesus’ words at Matthew 24:34 give us confidence that at least some of “this generation will by no means pass away” before seeing the start of the great tribulation. This should add to our conviction that little time remains before the King of God’s Kingdom acts to destroy the wicked and usher in a righteous new world.—2 Pet. 3:13.

34

What is this latest letter from the GB about?

by stuckinarut2 in

we have been told this week that all in the elder and ms body will be read a letter from the gb about "make this the greatest month of activity ever"..... has anyone else had such a letter read out in their cong / servant body?.

i presume it will be all about "recommending strongly/insisting" that all these men should pioneer for the month?.

leaving_quietly

Just remember, when they first announced this campaign, they prophesied that is was going to be 'historic' and 'the greatest witnessing campaign ever'. They must of realized after the fact that they made this campaign for what is historically known as the worst month of witnessing activity of the year due to it being so HOT (at least in the U.S.). So, in order to fulfill their man-made prophecy, they have to drum up soldiers to carry it out. Good luck with that, WT. Maybe your prophecy will come true. Maybe not.

8

Don't we normally hear about the new convention releases by now?

by average joe in

am i missing something here :) whats the deal google isnt bringing up any names of the new releases or anything from the conventions.

i am curious as to what this year will bring?

.

leaving_quietly

New tract - can't recall the title

Two new brochures - one for kids, one for families

New book - God's Kingdom Rules! (with an exclamation point - GB member S. Lett made much to do about this)

New DVD - These Words Must Prove To Be On Your Heart

6

RC's and IC's: Are buses the new profit center?

by zed is dead in

locally there was a very strong push for everybody to ride the bus to the international convention.

they discouraged driving to the stadium and were not as crazy about booking rooms through the society.

my guess is that they are getting a cut of the bus fares that they organize.

leaving_quietly

No. Sorry. No.

Having just been through this, the buses were an absolute necessity as the parking was just not enough and way too far away. Here in Seattle, the parking area our circuit was assigned to was 1.3 miles away. Friday morning, the traffic was horrendous as the backup was over 2 hours long for some people. They didn't make it to the convention site until 11 or 11:30am, well after the convention started. Lots of congregations hired buses themselves and each person who wanted to take the bus paid for it (plus driver tip) themselves. WTBTS had no involvement in hiring buses, except for the school buses they used for shuttling people from the far parking lots to the site. And each congregation came up with their own "rules" as to how to organize the buses. There was no rule from WTBTS about not riding with family from other congregations. That would appear to be a rule local to your congregation. Although it makes sense because the price of the bus would probably be split by each person riding as it was in several congregations that I'm aware of, and prices varied from bus company to bus company. I know of a congregation that was two hours away from the site that only cost $20 per person to ride. But the bus company our congregation used where we are less than an hour from the site charged over $50 per person. It all depended on the bus company. Some congregations hired school buses, whereas most hired charter buses (way more comfortable).

Why was the parking so terrible? One elder told me that the Huskies normally paid the city over $100,000 per game to close down the streets around the stadium to help with traffic flow. WTBTS didn't do that, so traffic was a mess. Another factor is that one of the big parking lots was closed down to normal parking and reserved for the buses. Another factor is that WTBTS didn't pay for ALL the parking available around the stadium. There were lots that are normally used for other things that would typically be available during a game (for a fee), but WTBTS didn't pay for those, and attendees weren't about to spend the money on them for three full days. That would be expensive for normal families.

There is a problem for football games. Don't kid yourself there. A non-JW told my wife that when they went to a game, they had to park far away, and the walk in was really long. The difference is that people who go to football games are generally willing to put up with that because it's for one day, not three, and they're in much more comfortable attire for walking, and they're not dragging bags of books, food and for the most part, small kids/babies with them. Oh, and non-JWs don't complain nearly as much about this stuff as JWs do. Go figure.

65

Seriously considering stepping down as Elder

by fader77 in

i have been an elder for 6 years.

it's been the last 2 years or so that i've really seen the hypocrisy, but the ability to know the shenanigans of the society through the body of elders letters has kind of kept me in there.

i'm to the point now that i can't stand the hatred and bitterness that the body of elders has towards myself and my whole family.

leaving_quietly

Recently I went back to school for my Masters degree and I'm almost done.

Wait... what??? How are you actually still being ALLOWED to serve as an elder? This is a HUGE no-no.

Seriously, though, good for you. I stepped down a couple of years ago after starting to learn TTATT. There were several reasons. One of them was James 3:1: "Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive heavier judgment."

I could no longer, in good conscience, teach this stuff from the platform.

68

A "follow up" meeting?!?!

by DATA-DOG in

well, now they want a follow up visit!

when you tell the elders that you have doubts and they say " its okay, we have had our doubts.

having doubts is not apostasy.

leaving_quietly

I guess a question that only you can answer is: what do YOU want out of all of this? If you are not prepared to not be a JW, then you have to placate them.

68

A "follow up" meeting?!?!

by DATA-DOG in

well, now they want a follow up visit!

when you tell the elders that you have doubts and they say " its okay, we have had our doubts.

having doubts is not apostasy.

leaving_quietly

It prob hasn't yet, but still could. Many times this next visit is a 2nd-investigation/give-counsel meeting. In other words, they most likely are being sent to give you stern counsel, warnings, share scriptures, pray, yada yada in order to "readjust" you.

Yes, exactly. They are oblilgated to visit you at least twice, per the Shepherding book, using this scripture out of context:

As for a man who promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition, 11 knowing that such a man has deviated from the way and is sinning and is self-condemned. - Titus 3:10,11

Once the second admonition is given, if you don't respond, they can form a judicial committee. Of course, you are not promoting a sect, which is why this is an out of context application of this verse. In addition, verse 9 talks about "foolish arguments, geneologies and disputes and fights over the Law" which is likely not what you are doing, either.

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly