I watched "Apocalypse Later: Harold Camping vs. The End of the World" over the weekend. Fascinating documentary. JWs aren't the only ones, of course, but it was interesting to hear how the stats of how many Americans believe we are in "the last days". This documentary is an eye-opener into the minds of believers, and this isn't limited to JWs. JWs just have a harsher way of dealing with those who don't agree with them.
leaving_quietly
JoinedPosts by leaving_quietly
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World Events bring about A Renewed Zeal!!!
by jk-ton inhi guys!
is anyone sensing an increasingly sanctimonious arrogance in j-dubs recently?
im asking this as i am finding that with the two major news stories in the last few weeks (ie.
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Ironic quote in the 5/14wt lesson "Are you moving ahead with Jehovahs Organization"
by BU2B inthe whole article makes me ill with its worse than average mind control.. i was going to only include one quote but there are so many doozies that i will post what i feel to be the worst.. from paragraph 6.
"gods organization survives and flourishes on earth because the people who are part of it have his approval.".
the great tribulation has been "so close" for over 120 years of wt history.
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leaving_quietly
P.S. Sorry for repeating some of what was in the OP. I was just typing as I was "studying" my lesson. I re-read the OP and realized I repeated some things. But, I think maybe they bear repeating for those of us who have to sit through this.
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Ironic quote in the 5/14wt lesson "Are you moving ahead with Jehovahs Organization"
by BU2B inthe whole article makes me ill with its worse than average mind control.. i was going to only include one quote but there are so many doozies that i will post what i feel to be the worst.. from paragraph 6.
"gods organization survives and flourishes on earth because the people who are part of it have his approval.".
the great tribulation has been "so close" for over 120 years of wt history.
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leaving_quietly
Par 16: "With the help of Paul's letter to the Hebrews, howwever, they accepted the fact that they had been sanctfied, not by means of sacrifices "offered according to the Law," but "through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.""
For the brave, you can comment: "Today, we too are sanctified through this same offering of the body of Christ, as it says, "once for all time". If we make sacrifices today in the kingdom preaching work, it is because we want to, not because we will be sanctified by means of them."
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Ironic quote in the 5/14wt lesson "Are you moving ahead with Jehovahs Organization"
by BU2B inthe whole article makes me ill with its worse than average mind control.. i was going to only include one quote but there are so many doozies that i will post what i feel to be the worst.. from paragraph 6.
"gods organization survives and flourishes on earth because the people who are part of it have his approval.".
the great tribulation has been "so close" for over 120 years of wt history.
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leaving_quietly
Par 14: Pryce Hughes life story was in the April 1, 1963 WT. He was Vice-President of the International Bible Students Association. He died in 1978.
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Ironic quote in the 5/14wt lesson "Are you moving ahead with Jehovahs Organization"
by BU2B inthe whole article makes me ill with its worse than average mind control.. i was going to only include one quote but there are so many doozies that i will post what i feel to be the worst.. from paragraph 6.
"gods organization survives and flourishes on earth because the people who are part of it have his approval.".
the great tribulation has been "so close" for over 120 years of wt history.
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leaving_quietly
Par 5: "Regarding Armageddon, Bible prophecy states: "'Jehovah has a controversy with the nations. He will personally pass judgement on all humans."
Really?
John 5:22: "For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son"
Rev 19:11: "I saw heaven opened, and look! a white horse. And the one seated on it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness." (JWs accept that the one seatedd on the white horse is Christ)Par 7: "For example, in a recent ten-year period--during the service years of 2003 through 2013--more than 2,707,000 individuals were baptized i symbol of their dedication to God."
While this may be true, here's a comment for anyone who wishes to make it:
According to the Yearbooks, in 2003, there was a peak of 6,429,351 publishers, and in 2012, the peak was 7,782,346 publishers. Simple math tells us that this was an increase of 1,352,995 publishers. So, while 2,707,000 were baptized, if we subtract the number of the increase from the number of those baptized, we get the number who either died, were disfellowshipped, disassociated or otherwise left God's organization. That amounts to 1,354,005 people.
If you're brave, you can add: "It's scary to see more that are no longer part of the organization than who became part of the organization in that ten-year period of time."
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October 1914
by Quendi inwe have had a great discussion about world war i and its impact on the twentieth century.
i hope we can have an equally interesting exchange about october 1914. we all know how important that date was in the history of jehovah's witnesses but what may be murkier is the wts's later thinking on what happened that month and when.
charles taze russell and his followers expected the gentile times to conclude in that month with the battle of armageddon.
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leaving_quietly
I think precision is important for WTS. October 4/5 1914 supposedly corresponds with Tishri 15, which is the date they think was when Jerusalem was finally desolated in 607 B.C.E. Thus, counting forward the 2,520 years, they get to Tishri 15 in 1914, which is October 4/5. Counting forward 100 years, it has to be the same dates. However, they should be counting by Jewish years, which would bring it to October 9, 2014.
Of course, I use the term "precision" loosely (ha ha). Notice their explanation:
*** w72 6/1 pp. 351-352 Questions From Readers ***
Questions From Readers
● Why did the beginning of World War I not coincide with the early part of October, when the “appointed times of the nations” ended?—U.S.A.As has often been shown in this magazine, the conferring of kingship over the nations on Christ Jesus took place in 1914 C.E., at the expiration of the “appointed times of the nations” or the Gentile Times. (Luke 21:24; Dan. 4:16, 17, 31, 32) Those “appointed times” began 2,520 years earlier, after the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E. and the assassination of the Jewish governor Gedaliah. The murder of Gedaliah in the month of Tishri (September/October) (“at the seventh new moon,” Byington translation) prompted those Jews left remaining in the land of Judah to flee. (Jer. 41:1, 2; 43:2-7) By the time the fearful Jews fled to Egypt it must have been at least the middle of Tishri, to allow enough time for the events mentioned in the Bible as taking place between the assassination and the flight. (Compare Jeremiah 41:4, 10–42:7.) This would place the start of the Gentile Times about Tishri 15, 607 B.C.E.
At the end of the Gentile Times, about Tishri 15 (October 4/5), 1914 C.E., Revelation 11:15 was fulfilled: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ.” By enthroning his Son Jesus Christ, Jehovah God took his power to rule as King over the world of mankind. The rulership of the great Adversary, Satan the Devil, was due to end.
Being the ‘ruler of the world’ of mankind alienated from God, Satan certainly did not want to see the Kingdom take full control of earth’s affairs. (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11) Over nineteen centuries earlier he maneuvered matters in such a way that, had it not been for divine intervention, Herod the Great would have killed the infant Jesus. (Matt. 2:13) Similarly, even before the birth of the heavenly kingdom, Satan readied himself and his demons for an attack. This is symbolically described at Revelation 12:3-5, where we read: “Another sign was seen in heaven, and, look! a great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and upon its heads seven diadems; and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth. And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, that, when she did give birth, it might devour her child. And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was caught away to God and to his throne.”
It should not be surprising, then, that World War I broke out about two months before the end of the Gentile Times, and hence before the birth of the symbolic “son” or heavenly kingdom. Satan the Devil did not need to wait until after kingship over the nations had been placed in the hands of Jesus Christ to maneuver the nations into a large-scale war. The start of that sanguinary conflict was doubtless part of his scheme to blind persons to what had happened in the heavens in fulfillment of Bible prophecy and also, if at all possible, to hinder the Kingdom from ruling over the world of mankind.
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Reality is plain to see: if you just open your eyes
by kneehighmiah ini made a post a few days ago about stagnant jw growth at international conventions.
i also enjoyed reading analysis of the statistics from jwfacts.
what the watchtower claims and what the reality is, are two different things.
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leaving_quietly
in this modern society why did it take some of us so long to see what everyone else outside the organization sees? Fear? Wanting to believe? What caused me to never check references used in the watchtower? Why didn't I read other bible commentaries?
For me, at least three reasons. I, too, was an almost-born-in (toddler when my parents were baptized).
1. My parents taught it to me, so why wouldn't I believe it?
2. I knew nothing else, and had no real reason to question anything. After all, it DID make sense!
3. Lazy
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WTS one step closer to "1984" - JW literature rewritten in online versions
by sir82 inlikely everyone here is familar with the novel "1984" - "he who controls the past, controls the future.
he who controls the present, controls the past".. take a look at wol.jw.org, insight book, topic "faithful and discreet slave".. current online wording: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001485.
jesus trained the apostles for the role they would have after pentecost 33 c.e.
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leaving_quietly
The article online is very different. In particular, the last two paragraphs.
Full article - online version
FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE
When answering the apostles’ question concerning his future presence and the conclusion of the existing system of things, Jesus Christ included a parable, or illustration, dealing with a “faithful and discreet slave.” The faithful slave’s master appointed him over his domestics, or household servants, to provide them their food. If approved at his master’s coming (evidently from some trip), the slave would be rewarded by being placed over all the master’s belongings.—Mt 24:3, 45-51.
In the parallel illustration at Luke 12:42-48, the slave is called a steward, that is, a house manager or administrator, one placed over servants, though he is himself a servant. Such a position was often filled in ancient times by a faithful slave. (Compare Ge 24:2; also the case of Joseph at Ge 39:1-6.) In Jesus’ illustration the steward is first assigned only to the supervision and timely dispensation of the food supplies to the master’s body of attendants, or servants, and later, because of his faithful and discreet handling of this ministry, his assignment is widened out to embrace supervision of all the master’s holdings. Regarding the identification of the “master” (Gr., ky′ri·os, also rendered “lord”), Jesus had already shown that he himself occupied such a position toward his disciples, and they addressed him as such on occasion. (Mt 10:24, 25; 18:21; 24:42; Joh 13:6, 13) The question remains concerning the application of the figure of the faithful and discreet slave, or steward, and what his dispensing food to the domestics represents.
“Slave” is in the singular. This, however, does not require that the “slave” prefigure only one particular person who would be so privileged. The Scriptures contain examples of the use of a singular noun to refer to a collective group, such as when Jehovah addressed the collective group of the Israelite nation and told them: “You are my witnesses [plural], . . . even my servant [singular] whom I have chosen.” (Isa 43:10) The “antichrist” is shown to be a collective group made up of individual antichrists. (1Jo 2:18; 2Jo 7) Similarly, the “slave” is composite. It was to be appointed in the time of the end as a channel to give out spiritual “food at the proper time.” (Mt 24:3, 45; Lu 12:42) In the first century, Jesus set a pattern for how spiritual food would be dispensed in the Christian congregation. Just as he had distributed literal food to the crowds through the hands of a few disciples, spiritual food was to be provided through the hands of a few. (Mt 14:19; Mk 6:41; Lu 9:16) Jesus trained the apostles for the role they would have after Pentecost 33 C.E. as a channel in dispensing spiritual food. They were later joined by other elders to serve as a governing body in order to settle issues and to direct the preaching and teaching of the Kingdom good news. (Ac 2:42; 8:14; 15:1, 2, 6-29; 22:17-19) After the death of the apostles, a great apostasy set in. But in the time of the end—in keeping with the pattern he set in the first century of feeding many through the hands of a few—Jesus selected a small group of spirit-anointed men to serve as “the faithful and discreet slave,” to prepare and dispense spiritual food during his presence.
The domestics are all those who belong to the Christian congregation, both the anointed and the “other sheep,” who are fed spiritual food. (Joh 10:16) This includes the individual members making up “the faithful and discreet slave,” since they too are recipients of the food dispensed. Those who make up the faithful slave will receive expanded responsibility if they are found faithful at the master’s promised arrival. When they receive their heavenly reward and become corulers with Christ, he will appoint them over “all his belongings.” Along with the rest of the 144,000, they will share Christ’s vast heavenly authority.—Mt 24:46, 47; Lu 12:43, 44.Full article - WT Library CD 2013
FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE
When answering the apostles’ question concerning his future presence and the conclusion of the existing system of things, Jesus Christ included a parable, or illustration, dealing with a “faithful and discreet slave” and an “evil slave.” The faithful slave’s master appointed him over his domestics, or household servants, to provide them their food. If approved at his master’s coming (evidently from some trip), the slave would be rewarded by being placed over the master’s entire property.—Mt 24:3, 45-51.In the parallel illustration at Luke 12:42-48, the slave is called a steward, that is, a house manager or administrator, one placed over servants, though he is himself a servant. Such a position was often filled in ancient times by a faithful slave. (Compare Ge 24:2; also the case of Joseph at Ge 39:1-6.) In Jesus’ illustration the steward is first assigned only to the supervision and timely dispensation of the food supplies to the master’s body of attendants, or servants, and later, because of his faithful and discreet handling of this ministry, his assignment is widened out to embrace supervision of all the master’s holdings. Regarding the identification of the “master” (Gr., ky′ri·os, also rendered “lord”), Jesus had already shown that he himself occupied such a position toward his disciples, and they addressed him as such on occasion. (Mt 10:24, 25; 18:21; 24:42; Joh 13:6, 13) The question remains concerning the application of the figure of the faithful and discreet slave, or steward, and what his dispensing food to the domestics represents.
Commentators often view this as a general exhortation to any and all who have individual positions of responsibility in the Christian congregation. The requirement of faithfulness in discharging responsibility clearly applies to all such. (Compare Mt 25:14-30; Tit 1:7-9.) Yet, the impossibility of each and every one of these individuals being placed over “all” his master’s belongings at the same time, the time of the master’s arrival, is obvious. This, however, does not require that the “slave” prefigure only one particular person who would be so privileged. The Scriptures contain examples of the use of a singular noun to refer to a collective group, as when Jehovah addressed the collective group of the Israelite nation and told them: “You are my witnesses [plural], . . . even my servant [singular] whom I have chosen.” (Isa 43:10) Similarly, the figure of the unfaithful “evil slave” could apply to a collective group in the same way that “the antichrist” is shown to be a class made up of individual antichrists.—1Jo 2:18; 2Jo 7.
Those forming the Christian congregation are referred to by the apostle Paul as “members of the household of God” (Eph 2:19; 1Ti 3:15), and the same apostle shows that ‘faithful stewardship’ among such household members involved the dispensing of spiritual truths on which those becoming believers would ‘feed.’ (1Co 3:2, 5; 4:1, 2; compare Mt 4:4.) Whereas this was a prime responsibility of those appointed as ‘shepherds’ of the flock (1Pe 5:1-3), the apostle Peter shows that such stewardship of the divine truths was actually committed to all the ‘chosen ones,’ all the spirit-anointed ones, of the Christian congregation. (1Pe 1:1, 2; 4:10, 11) Thus the entire anointed Christian congregation was to serve in a united stewardship, dispensing such truths. At the same time the individual members making up such composite body, or the “domestics” making up the “house” of God (Mt 24:45; Heb 3:6; Eph 2:19), would also be recipients of the “food” dispensed. (Heb 5:11-14; compare 1Co 12:12, 19-27.) Expanded responsibility would result from faithfulness maintained until the master’s promised ‘arrival.’—Mt 24:46, 47; Lu 12:43, 44.
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JWs could be rejected for the very reason Israels first King was rejected!
by exWTslave inking saul was rejected for going beyond what is instructed.
he started preparing for the battle by offering sacrifices as prophet samuel did not turn up even after the stated one week time (1 samuel 10:8 & 13:8); he also did not fully carried out to kill all the amalekites).. would not same principle apply in the case of jws also when they have gone, many times, beyond what is written?
whenever they made changes in their teachings (even in many of their core-teachings), they did go beyond what is written, or acted at lease without having full knowledge!.
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leaving_quietly
for rebelliousness is the same as the sin of divination, and pushing ahead presumptuously the same as using magical power and idolatry - 1 Sam 15:23
This is Samuel's response to Saul. Saul just got done saying: "But I have obeyed the voice of Jehovah! I went on the mission to which Jehovah sent me, and I brought back A′gag the king of Am′a·lek, and I devoted the A·mal′ek·ites to destruction. 21 But the people took sheep and cattle from the spoil, the best of what was devoted to destruction, to sacrifice to Jehovah your God at Gil′gal.”"
Sound familiar?
'But we have obeyed the voice of Jehovah by declaring 1914/1925/1975/the end of the 20th century as a POSSIBLE time of the end. But the PEOPLE went and took it LITERALLY!'
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WTS one step closer to "1984" - JW literature rewritten in online versions
by sir82 inlikely everyone here is familar with the novel "1984" - "he who controls the past, controls the future.
he who controls the present, controls the past".. take a look at wol.jw.org, insight book, topic "faithful and discreet slave".. current online wording: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001485.
jesus trained the apostles for the role they would have after pentecost 33 c.e.
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leaving_quietly
It would be one thing if they put in a disclaimer somewhere that this volume was a revision. Authors revise books all the time, but the call it "2nd edition", "3rd edition", etc. But I checked out the Title/Publisher's Page and there's no such thing. Not even a printing date, which is usually what WT does. This, to me, makes this very deceptive. Try to tell a modern, technically saavy, new JW what they used to believe, they'll go here and they won't find it. This is why it's so important to keep the original paper copies. Unfortunately, I threw out most of my library years ago. I kept a few things I deemed important, but most older books and bound volumes went in the trash. I had the CD, so why keep the paper copy? This, of course, was before I knew they revised things. Makes me angry.