leaving_quietly

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Posts by leaving_quietly

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  60

  How Do You Answer Someone Who Says JWs Are Not False Prophets?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it used to bother me that people would say that about my well meaning religion.

  how do you prove that witnesses are indeed, false prophets?.

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  leaving_quietly

  This is one of those threads that could benefit from a Like or Favorites button. But, since that doesn't exist:

  LQMARKED
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  40

  Revelation, its Grand Climax.... remember when?

  by wallsofjericho in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i remember being at the assembly in 1988?

  when this was released.

  everyone was so excited that we finally had a simple explanation of revelation with pictures.

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  leaving_quietly

  1988 actually.

  Yes, this book has ridiculous explanations. Funny thing... it's still considered (by the org) as an authority on the book of Revelation. Many references in the index point to this book as the latest teaching.

  That said, have you ever looked at other explanations of Revelation by other religions or groups? Almost as ridiculous. Some, even more so.
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  2

  Is this talk given by Samuel Herd

  by Jay Elle in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this particular video has humor added in, but there is an audio with just the talk.

  is it really samuel herd?.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv6bn0rcjzc.

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  leaving_quietly

  Yes, it's him. This is a very old talk. It was discussed on this board a few months back. He gave it sometime in the 70s, I believe.
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  34

  OMG: WT legislating about fragances and common sense

  by pixel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do they have to tell the r&f every little detail???.

  from the new wt:.

  what can be done to assist brothers and sisters who suffer from adverse reactions to fragrances?any who are sensitive to fragrances face a difficult challenge.

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  leaving_quietly

  It IS incredible that they have to publish this. However, in defense of all those that have an allergy to fragrances, the rest of the R&F seriously lack common sense. Oh, wait... no, I'm wrong. They lack LOVE. Because they know EXACTLY who in their congregations have issues, but they selfishly wear those fragrances anyway.

  Yes, I'm defending those who have an allergy because I personallly know several like that who are very sweet and don't make a big deal about it, but you know when they are suffering.
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  28

  Best scriptures for countering TOMO III's comment about "inactive ones"??

  by DATA-DOG in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what do you say, bible gurus???

  a relative asked me what i thought of the zone visit.

  i am in the process of gathering my thoughts.

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  leaving_quietly

  2 Peter 1:8 is the only place where the word "inactive" is used in the NWT.

  For if these things exist in you and overflow, they will prevent you from being either inactive or unfruitful regarding the accurate knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

  The word for "inactive" is argous (Strong's 692) which means "idle, lazy, thoughtless". It can mean inactive or even ineffective as some translations say.

  Again, though, what is the context? What "things" does this verse refer to? Going back to verse 5:

  For this very reason, put forth all earnest effort to supply to your faith virtue, to your virtue knowledge, 6 to your knowledge self-control, to your self-control endurance, to your endurance godly devotion, 7 to your godly devotion brotherly affection, to your brotherly affection love.

  Faith, virtue, knowledge, self-control, endurance, godly devotion, brotherly affection, love. Nothing about the preaching work. In addition, what does "brotherly affection" have to do with preaching to strangers? Nothing.

  Also, 2 Peter doesn't talk about preaching at all. He mentions Noah, "a preacher of righteousness", but as far as preaching or declaring anything, this particular letter is silent. Thus, contextually, being "inactive" doesn't have anything to do with preaching.
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  8

  Nethinim - (Barb Anderson please comment if you can!) :)

  by wallsofjericho in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  *** w06 2/15 p. 28 par.

  11 walking in the path of increasing light ***.

  the year 1992 saw still another refinement, one that is comparable to what happened after the israelites and others returned from exile in babylon.

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  leaving_quietly

  But I recall it implied that all the 144k could die off and the Org would be run by the "given ones" until the Big A. Did you get this too?

  That's the impression that has been given, yes, though they don't come out and say that explicitly.

  Here's the exact wording in the 1992 article:

  In ancient times, priests and Levites continued to serve among the Jews. (John 1:19) Today, however, the remnant of spiritual Israel on earth must go on decreasing. (Contrast John 3:30.) Finally, after the demise of Babylon the Great, all 144,000 ‘sealed ones’ will be in heaven for the marriage of the Lamb. (Revelation 7:1-3; 19:1-8) But now the other sheep must go on increasing. The fact that some of them, comparable to the Nethinim and the sons of the servants of Solomon, are now being assigned weighty responsibilities under the oversight of the anointed remnant does not cause them to be presumptuous or feel self-important. (Romans 12:3) This gives us confidence that as God’s people “come out of the great tribulation,” there will be experienced men—“princes”—prepared to take the lead among the other sheep.—Revelation 7:14; Isaiah 32:1; compare Acts 6:2-7.

  Another article was in 1995 (w95 7/1 pp. 21,22):

  7 In 537 B.C.E., when Israel returned from exile in Babylon, they set about organizing service on the temple site. However, the Levites who returned were not very numerous. Hence, the Nethinim—circumcised alien residents who previously were assistants of the Levites—were given increased privileges in temple service. They were not, however, equals of the anointed Aaronic priests.—Ezra 7:24; 8:15-20; Nehemiah 3:22-26.
  8 Anointed Christians today have followed this pattern. As “the time of the end” has progressed, the remaining ones of the anointed have become fewer and fewer in the “land” of God’s people. (Daniel 12:9; Revelation 12:17) In view of this, the great crowd now accomplish most of the work of rendering “sacred service.” (Revelation 7:15) Following the lead of their anointed brothers, they “offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of lips which make public declaration to his name.” They “do not forget the doing of good and the sharing of things with others,” knowing that “with such sacrifices God is well pleased.”—Hebrews 13:15, 16.
  9 Moreover, with the great crowd increasing by the hundreds of thousands each year, there is an ever-growing need for oversight. At one time this was handled exclusively by anointed Christians. Now, oversight of most congregations, as well as circuits, districts, and branches, has of necessity been entrusted to the other sheep. In 1992 a few of these were given the privilege of attending meetings of committees of the Governing Body and serving as nonvoting helpers. Still, the other sheep remain loyal to their anointed fellow Christians and feel privileged to support them as Jehovah’s faithful and discreet slave.—Matthew 25:34-40.

  I suggest you also look at w97 5/15 pp. 15-19 as it has a discussion regarding the other sheep and its responsibilities. A search for "Nethinim" or "given ones" in the WT Library CD might be helpful.
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  16

  Anthony Morris - AP's in August, 900%, increase, yet decrease in BS's

  by berrygerry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the only video that i've found of tomo is 39:00 minutes long - the ending is missing.. various posts mentioned highlights of the tremendous witness in august, with a 900% increase in ap's, as well as some other magnificent accomplishment that i cannot locate.. then i painfully listened to the video to verify, and at about 38:00, tomo bemoans the downward trend in bible studies.. the best august of all-time, yet downward trend.. looks like the toilet bowl is swirling.. .

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  leaving_quietly

  Yeah, a little over 5000 each week. Big deal. Mormons have that, too. 5000 per week is 260,000 per year. Definitely not an increase. More like status quo.
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  13

  "Opinions about dress and grooming..."

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from the july 15, 2014 watchtower, page 15. par.

  "opinions about dress and grooming, health and nutrition, and other personal matters may also trigger controversy.

  accordingly, if no scriptural principle is being violated, jehovah's people wisely abstain from arguing over such matters, "for a slave of the lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle [tactful, ftn.

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  leaving_quietly

  Yes, he did read 1 Tim 2:9. Notice, though, that the apostle Paul never explained what he said about modest or appropriate dress. He never got specific. He didn't offer an opinion. He left that to the consciences of those he was writing to. What Paul said was enough.

  Thus, any OPINIONS about the color of socks and the tightness of pants or the age by which a male has to be a ministerial servant is just that, OPINIONS.

  I would have had no issue if he had read the verse, then said something like: "Some have observed some of our brothers and sisters wearing clothing that is a little too tight or too revealing. Perhaps we should evaluate what we're wearing to see that it's modest and appropriate before we leave our homes." And leave it at that. Let people's own consciences guide them.

  Of course, in a high-control group, controlling what people wear is one of the hallmarks. I realize that.
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  13

  "Opinions about dress and grooming..."

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from the july 15, 2014 watchtower, page 15. par.

  "opinions about dress and grooming, health and nutrition, and other personal matters may also trigger controversy.

  accordingly, if no scriptural principle is being violated, jehovah's people wisely abstain from arguing over such matters, "for a slave of the lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle [tactful, ftn.

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  leaving_quietly

  From the July 15, 2014 Watchtower, page 15. par. 13:

  "Opinions about dress and grooming, health and nutrition, and other personal matters may also trigger controversy. Accordingly, if no Scriptural principle is being violated, Jehovah's people wisely abstain from arguing over such matters, "for a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle [tactful, ftn.] toward all." - 2 Tim 2:24."

  Seems yet another double standard has been applied as Anthony Morris apparently feels he is above this counsel.
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  8

  Nethinim - (Barb Anderson please comment if you can!) :)

  by wallsofjericho in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  *** w06 2/15 p. 28 par.

  11 walking in the path of increasing light ***.

  the year 1992 saw still another refinement, one that is comparable to what happened after the israelites and others returned from exile in babylon.

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  leaving_quietly

  The 1992 article is really the only article ever to attribute the GB helpers to the Nethinim. What's interesting is that the 1992 article said that the Nethinim were never considered equal to the Levites. One of their references was the Dictionary of the Bible, and when reading that source, it later says (but not quoted by WTBTS) that the Nethinim later became indistinguishable from the Levites. This was one of the first places I noticed intentional misquoting by WTBTS.

  The WT article says this:

  16 When the group returned from Babylon, it contained few Levites, compared to the priests or Nethinim and “sons of the servants of Solomon.” (Ezra 8:15-20) The Dictionary of the Bible, by Dr. James Hastings, observes: “After a time we find [the Nethinim] so completely established as a sacred official class, that privileges are accorded to them.” The scholarly journal Vetus Testamentum notes: “A change occurred. After the Return from Exile, these [foreigners] were no longer regarded as slaves of the Temple, but as ministrants in it, enjoying a status similar to that of those other bodies, which officiated in the Temple.”—See the box “A Changed Status.”
  17 Of course, the Nethinim did not become the equals of the priests and the Levites.

  The Dictionary of the Bible says this (page 654):

  From this point the Nethinim gradually rose in official position, until they were Indistinguishable from the Levites.

  Another interesting thing is that the revised NWT no longer says "Nethinim". Each place where that term occurred in the old NWT, it's been replaced by "temple servant".

  The term itself was first applied to the Gibeonites who tricked Joshua (see Joshua chapter 9).

  For WTBTS to apply this to the helpers to the GB was and still is way out of line. If they want to have helpers, fine. But don't say these are "given ones" or "Nethinim". The two terms have nothing to do with each other.