leaving_quietly

Joined

• started 82 topics
• posted 1,676 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by leaving_quietly

• 
  10

  Pioneer Identiffication Number

  by Lostandfound in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  saw in atlantis post re pioneer school abroad this in brnch letter.

  piioneer identification number.

  so do publishers get one, are the jws now just numbers?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  leaving_quietly

  Er... correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't there been Pioneer Identfication Numbers for years? Pioneers used to get a card the size of a business card with their number on it. I remember having one of these back in the 80s.
  
• 
  29

  List of reasons why the witnesses are wrong.

  by atomant in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  l thought it might be a good idea to have a quick reference post to remind people of the faults within the jw org.what do others think.

  ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  leaving_quietly

  I didn't think this list would ever see the light of day. I wrote it a year ago or so. But, here goes. I titled this document, "Something's not right in Paradise"

  1. "Overlapping generations" - This teaching makes no sense. The word used by Jesus is in the singular, not plural form.

  2. 2,520 years prophecy fabricated from a supposed second fulfillment of Daniel 4, linked to a single word in Luke 21:24, uses numbers for counting found in Revelation 11:2,3 and a applies a mathematical formula found in Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6 all to get to 1914. Prophecy originates with Baptist minister William Miller, then adapted by the Adventists, and finally adapted by C.T. Russell. Prophecy of 1914 has changed over time.

  3. 2300 days prophecy - From WT article in 1938 to Annual Meeting in 1944??? Days don't add up. Neither does the prophecy fit as the prophecy is about the "constant feature" being "taken away". The “constant feature” is said to be the preaching work, but publisher counts show a marked increase over this time period based on counts in each Yearbook.

  4. Multiple times for the 2300 days prophecy to be fulfilled. Per 1959 WT, “Count now from the beginning of this International Convention of London on May 25, 1926, and we shall find that the 2,300 days of evenings and mornings bring us to October 15, 1932.. Per Daniel’s Prophecy book, June 1 or 15, 1938 to October 2, 1944.

  5. Other prophecies like #3 above where the number of days don't add up, and prophecies are tied to WT articles or conventions.

  6. Very little mention of Christ most of the time. Lip service, to be sure, but when there's ample opportunity to bring Christ into the conversation, it usually doesn’t happen.

  7. Big on preaching work, small on charity work. Disaster relief is fine, but many people and organizations do this. This is not a differentiator. No community charities. No helping the hungry. No “daily distribution”. (Acts 6:1)

  8. Preaching includes warning the wicked, when that was not the commission from Christ. (Matt 28:19)

  9. Preaching the “good news of the kingdom” rarely includes inviting people to come to Christ, when Christ is a large part of the good news. (Acts 5:42)

  10. Us vs. them. The world is all bad, other religions don't preach the way we do, etc.

  11. Binding up heavy loads. One is made to feel that they can never do enough.

  12. Boasting all the time.

  13. While it is said salvation is not earned, the message given to JWs is that they have to do “works” of preaching, meetings, etc. to have salvation.

  14. Viewing “works” as preaching, meetings, studying instead of works of the spirit: showing love to others, taking care of brothers and neighbors who are downtrodden.

  15. Promoting a web site is considered preaching?

  16. Distributing a magazine about how bad pornography is or how God feels about smoking is considered preaching the GOOD NEWS?

  17. Cherry picking scriptures to support a teaching.

  18. Taking scriptures out of context to support a teaching.

  19. Making nearly every prophecy in the Hebrew Scriptures a dual prophecy.

  20. Prohibiting partaking of the bread and the wine when Christ said that unless one eats his flesh and drinks his blood, they would have no life in themselves. (John 6:43) Christ NEVER limited this to the 144,000.

  21. Saying that the New Covenant is limited to 144,000. No scripture says this.

  22. Adding to or removing words from scriptures (e.g. "me" at John 14:14 where most translations and even the Interlinear says: "If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.")

  23. Saying worship of Jesus is wrong when Daniel 7:14 shows people would, in fact, be serving him.

  24. Only figuring out who the “faithful and discreet slave” really is over 90 years after their supposed appointment.

  25. Demanding unquestioning obedience to an organization.

  26. Saying God is directing the organization when God gave Christ that assignment. (Eph 1:22)

  27. Judging people as spiritually weak or spiritually strong based on meeting attendance and time spent distributing literature.

  28. Counting time spent distributing literature. (I can see counting actual placements since that is useful to know how many to print.)

  29. Defining knowing the appearance of the flock to mean knowing how many hours each person put on their monthly report. (Prov 27:23)

  30. Disfellowshipping people for doing things not even talked about in the Bible.

  31. Shunning disfellowshipped people (the Bible says not to eat with such a man, but doesn't say not to say a greeting.)

  32. Viewing disfellowshipped people as antichrists (these are the only ones the Bible says not to say a greeting to.)

  33. Questions for baptism. There is no scriptural precedent for this.

  34. Not baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

  35. Teaching that one must dedicate themselves to Jehovah in prayer before baptism. There is no scriptural precedent for this.

  36. Viewing most JWs as not sons of God.

  37. Viewing most JWs as not belonging to Christ.

  38. Viewing most JWs as not part of the new covenant.

  39. Making Jesus the mediator ONLY for the 144,000. (w09 4/15 p. 27 par. 14, 15; w08 12/15 pp. 13-14 par. 12,13; w00 11/15 p. 11 par. 8) The “great crowd” are simply “beneficiaries”.

  40. Making every JW a teacher when James 3:1 says, "Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive heavier judgment."

  41. No beards for men. Only Christ can wear one (based on pictures in the publications… Christ usually has a beard, but JWs do not.).

  42. Secretive letters / book for elders.

  43. Class system among preachers based on the number of hours they spend preaching.

  44. Teaching about a “paradise earth” when the phrase cannot be found in the Bible. Jesus never taught this, but instead taught the “Kingdom of heaven”. Two of the three occurrences of the word “Paradise” in the Greek scriptures clearly referred to heaven. The one at Luke 23:43 doesn’t say either way, but one must ask: what did the criminal on the stake understand “Paradise” to be? Earthly? Or heavenly? What did Jesus teach? “In the house of my Father are many dwelling places. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you.” (John 14:2) The one occurrence in the Hebrew scriptures was used in a sensual way in Song of Solomon.

  45. No verse in the Bible gives the idea that only 144,000 go to heaven.

  46. No verse in the Bible teaches that the 144,000 are kings and priests. Revelation 5:8-10 says: “...with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.” This describes the “great crowd” more than it does the 144,000, who are “out of every tribe of the sons of Israel.” (Rev 7:4).

  47. Flip-flopping on teachings.

  48. Using Proverbs 4:18 as an excuse to teach one thing, then later change it, saying it’s “new light”, an adjustment, a refinement. Never an apology issued for erroneous teachings.

  49. JWs must accept teachings in the publications over what the Bible says or face disfellowshipping as apostates.

  50. Teaching is “top down”, that is, from the Governing Body or Writing Department down to the publishers. There is scriptural precedent that teaching can be lateral. 1 Cor. 14:26-33 describes this, but that it should be done orderly. With JWs, one must “wait on Jehovah”, which equates with waiting until an article comes out that addresses the topic. One can be waiting for a very long time.
• 
  86

  Music Video: Would Jesus Wear a Rolex on JW Broadcasting? - PARODY

  by cappytan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this took quite a while this evening.

  so worth it though.

  hope you enjoy!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  leaving_quietly

  The Aug. 1994 WT has been quoted a few times. Thought you'd like to see the Feb 1, 1990 WT quote (pg. 25 par. 19). The article is entitled, Exposing the "Man of Lawlessness". Oh, the irony!
  

  The worldliness of some clergy has even been exposed in the media in recent times, as for example the licentious and luxurious life-styles of some TV clergymen. One modern songwriter composed a song with the title: “Would Jesus Wear a [$10,000] Rolex [watch] on His Television Show?” The song goes on to say: “Would Jesus be political if He came back to earth, have His second home in [luxurious] Palm Springs and try to hide His worth?” In addition, more and more clergymen condone or practice homosexuality. Even now the Catholic Church in the United States is paying millions of dollars in damages to compensate for priests guilty of sexual abuse of children.—Romans 1:24-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10.
  
• 
  24

  Most Translated Website

  by Pubsinger in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  wt claims their website is the 'most translated' and claims over 750 languages.

  but in the drop down language menu there are only about 50. so where are the others?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  leaving_quietly

  So their "pride" in the number of languages means nothing.

  To us, perhaps not. To them, it's a fulfillment of this verse:

  And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. - Rev 14:6
  
  
• 
  26

  Good idea or bad idea?

  by stephanie61092 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  first and foremost, thank you so much to so many of you who have reached out to me over the past few days since my post on sunday.

  i'm not totally in the best mental state, however, i do have a very small amount of people that i can lean on for support.

  i relayed my feelings to a friend (my only friend, really), who took the initiative to inform my family.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  leaving_quietly

  Speaking as an ex-elder, what you put in the contribution box is irrelevant. As @OneGenTwoGroups said, accounts are handled by ministerial servants (usually, unless there's few MSs in a congregation.) The elders will likely never even see what you put in. In all the years I served, the subject of who contributes was never ever ever discussed, and was not ever, not even once, part of any factor leading to reinstatement.
  

  I've seen letters get really involved and detailed and emotional. You don't need that, at least, not at first. Your first letter should simply ask to meet to see what you need to do to be re-instated, perhaps with a little, 'I've come to realize God's way is best and I made a huge mistake' thrown in (probably not far from the truth considering what you wrote in the first post.) Don't expect to be reinstated after the first meeting. During that first meeting, feel out how it's going. If you don't feel they're going to reinstate, then try to feel out how long before you could meet with them again. Many elders don't like to commit to a time period, but if they say something like, "a couple months," then that's a good takeaway. Wait that long, then submit another letter, but this time, ask to be reinstated, and mention the emotional aspects, such as how distraught you have been that you've brought reproach on Jehovah's name, etc. It may take a few requests to get it done.

  A side note:
  

  The elders on your reinstatement committee will be the same ones who were on the judicial committee unless you changed congregations, or one or more of them moved away. If you changed congregations, the final decision for reinstatement will rest with the original committee in the original congregation where you were DF'd. If they're not far away, they may meet with you instead. But if they are too far, your local elders will meet with you and when they feel ready to recommend you for reinstatement, they'll write a letter to your original congregation with the recommendation. The original congregation has to respond and either approve or reject the recommendation. It's a whole process. If you are in the same congregation as where you were DF'd, none of this applies, but if you're not, be prepared to tell them what congregation you were in when you were DF'd, and if possible, a contact of either the Coordinator there, the Secretary or one of the elders on the judicial committee.
  
• 
  28

  2016-1-12-BOE--Mentioning Donation Arrangement to Householder!

  by Atlantis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  2016-1-12-boe.

  "apply yourself to the field ministry," the "initial call" assignmentdirects the student to mention the donation arrangement..http://postimg.org/image/tayz8pawn/..atlantis!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  leaving_quietly

  It is clear to see that Jehovah is directing his earthly organization to our benefit.

  
  

  This. It's as if they continuously forget Eph 1:22 regarding Christ: "He also subjected all things under his feet and made him head over all things with regard to the congregation"

  What did Jehovah do, make Jesus head, then take it back?
  
  
• 
  22

  Swearing on the bible

  by Lost and adrift in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  on the subject of truth.

  ..... i was always under the impression that one of the reasons jws couldn't do jury duty or go to court etc was that we were not allowed to swear on the bible.

  ..as in i swear to tell the truth the whole truth etc etc .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  leaving_quietly

  In this case, you've been lied to by men, not by WTBTS. There's very few references to this topic, but:
  

  w76 pp. 447-448, says "no Scriptural objection to doing so" and "a Christian may choose to comply."
  

  it-2 p. 518: "For instance, as Jesus illustrated by example before the Jewish high priest, a Christian would not object to taking an oath in court, for he is going to speak the truth whether under oath or not."

  As for jury duty in general, WTBTS has been consistent in saying it is a conscience matter, but just as consistent in discouraging it in the very same articles.
  
• 
  15

  The WT knew in 1922 that 1914 was wrong !

  by Phizzy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the may 1922 edition of the wt, page 133, rutherford is writing defending the work of russell and the 1914 doctrine, he quotes what some have said to prove russell was wrong :.

  " "zedekiah was taken captive and jerusalem fell in the year 587 b. c.; thus showing that the full end of the gentile times and the fall of gentile governments is indicated to take place in 1934".. he goes on, in his own inimitable style, to disprove the above, but note, he is aware of the 587bce date for jerusalem's destruction.. if you are interested, you can read the whole mag here*, just click on pdf to read.. * https://ia700401.us.archive.org/19/items/1922watchtowerarticlesonchronology/1922_watchtower_articles_on_chronology.pdf.

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  leaving_quietly

  Wow, that article is dizzying.
  

  On page 136, second column, there's a paragraph that quotes Daniel 2:1.

  

  It goes on to describe how Daniel was brought in before the king to interpret the dreams. The very next paragraph says this is impossible.

  

  So, here you have J.F. Rutherford saying the Biblical account is not possible. On the next page, he writes this:

  

  Ah, so he's saying all the other renderings regarding Daniel 2:1 is incorrect and Variorium is correct because it fits the circumstances. Yet, the NWT and the RNWT both say, "the second year."

  
  
• 
  556

  The Watchtower are Right About Blood...

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.

  it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.

  they take pride in obedience.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  leaving_quietly

  I did read it, and I agree we can concede those four points.
• 
  556

  The Watchtower are Right About Blood...

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.

  it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.

  they take pride in obedience.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  leaving_quietly

  This particular topic is not interesting to me. Don't know why... just doesn't top the list of issues I have with the WT organization. That said, the ONLY reason JWs do not permit blood transfusions is because Acts 15:29 says to "abstain...from blood." That's it.

  As someone on this thread astutely pointed out, (way back on page 3 or 4 or 5 or 6... can't remember), Acts 15:29 also says to abstain "from things sacrificed to idols," and this was downplayed by Paul at 1 Cor 8:7-13, making it a conscience matter, but to make sure it does not stumble your brother. Additionally, Hebrews 8:13 shows that the old covenant was obsolete and "is near to vanishing away." From this, we can conclude that the laws in the Mosaic Law Covenant were mostly in effect when Acts 15:29 was penned, but were on their way out, and by the time Hebrews was written, were mostly gone.
  

  Also, Hebrews points out that because there is a new priest "of the order of Melchizedek," that is, Christ, there is a new law. "For since the priesthood is being changed, it becomes necessary to change the Law as well." (Heb 7:12)

  Sadly, JWs want to be part of the old "order of Aaron" (Heb 7:11) and thus want to hang onto the old Law, even reading into it things that were never stated.