Posts by leaving

154

Is unhappiness a reason for divorce ?

by caliber in

jw
friends

here are some sample expressions i found on-line.

my spouse is not abusive, mean, a bad person, an adulterer or any of those other labels.

my spouse refuses to grow up.

leaving_quietly

It's "a reason", yes. Legit or not is only for the two people in the marriage to decide.

This is the exact reason I started waking up. The WTS says "no", emphatically. Divorce is permitted only if fornication is committed. They allow three reasons for separation: willful non-support, extreme physical abuse and absolute spiritual endangerment. After my research, I found those three reasons completely bogus and without scriptural backing. Here's the bottom line, scripturally:

Matt 19:9: "I say to YOU that whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery." Note the emphasis. The adultery is committed only if another marriage ensues if the divorce is for any reason other than fornication.

Paul knew that happy marriages were not always possible. Thus, 1 Cor 7:10, 11: "To the married people I give instructions, yet not I but the Lord, that a wife should not depart from her husband; 11 but if she should actually depart, let her remain unmarried or else make up again with her husband; and a husband should not leave his wife."

The WTS attibutes 1 Cor 7:10,11 to separation. There's really no distinction here. Either way, it's a departing whether you call it separation or divorce. The sin comes in when, post-departing, one of the spouses has relations with someone else.

I can tell you unequivocally that I am super unhappy with my marriage (over 20 years). My spouse has given up. I have given up. It's only a matter of time before we part ways. For me, living alone would be better than being in a miserable relationship. We don't fight anymore. We rarely even talk. Not a good way to live. It's a lot harder to part when the religion has such a major role in life.

11

30 pieces of silver

by leaving_quietly in

zechariah 11:12,13 is viewed as a prophecy pertaining to judas, and fufilled at matt 26:14-16 and matt 27:9. judas, as we know, sold out jesus for 30 pieces of silver.

i noticed something when reading the verses in zechariah, though.

judas sold out and betrayed jesus, however zechariah is a prophecy being spoken by jehovah and pertaining to himself.. vs 12: "then i said to them:" who is the "i"?

leaving_quietly

Wow! Thanks everyone. This is more than I was expecting. Spurned me onto further research. There's only a tiny amount in WT publications that explain this in any detail.

I was actually more interested in the use of "Jehovah" in Zecharaiah, since it was Jesus who was betrayed in Mattew. I also found this reference, which explains:

(4) The insulting rejection of Christ (as indicated by such a paltry amount) was a reflection of the Jews’ attitude toward Jehovah himself. As the Lord said through Zechariah, “Cast it to the potter, the goodly price [strong irony] that I was prized at by them.” These words find stark fulfillment in the Savior’s warning, “he who rejects me rejects him who sent me” (Luke 10:16).

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/913-zechariahs-amazing-prophecy-of-the-betrayal-of-christ

Yep, that reference used Jehovah's name. How 'bout that.

11

30 pieces of silver

by leaving_quietly in

zechariah 11:12,13 is viewed as a prophecy pertaining to judas, and fufilled at matt 26:14-16 and matt 27:9. judas, as we know, sold out jesus for 30 pieces of silver.

i noticed something when reading the verses in zechariah, though.

judas sold out and betrayed jesus, however zechariah is a prophecy being spoken by jehovah and pertaining to himself.. vs 12: "then i said to them:" who is the "i"?

leaving_quietly

Zechariah 11:12,13 is viewed as a prophecy pertaining to Judas, and fufilled at Matt 26:14-16 and Matt 27:9. Judas, as we know, sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. I noticed something when reading the verses in Zechariah, though. Judas sold out and betrayed Jesus, however Zechariah is a prophecy being spoken by Jehovah and pertaining to himself.

vs 12: "Then I said to them:" Who is the "I"? Further up in verse 6: "is the utterance of Jehovah."

vs 13: "At that, Jehovah said to me: “Throw it to the treasury—the majestic value with which I have been valued from their standpoint.” Accordingly I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw it into the treasury at the house of Jehovah."

Who did Judas betray? And who attributed that betrayal to himself?

68

WTS says U.S. pubs increased .9% (less than 1%)for 2012

by Gayle in

jw
friends

2013 yearbook on jw.org.

leaving_quietly

@Jeffro - bwaaahaaaahaaahaaa

Didn't catch that. Apparently, neither did they.

No mention at all in the entire YB about the numbers of Aux in March. I was waiting to see if it topped 2 million, since they came out with a WT last year while the month was still March that said "millions" shared in auxiliary pioneering in March (note the date of the post in the first link).

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/223249/1/June-15-2012-described-events-that-had-not-happened-yet

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/233807/1/Evidence-of-Fabrication-in-the-recent-WT-study-article-for-8-19-12

49

11,824 Memorial Partakers in 2011

by FrankWTower in

there were 11,202 partakers in 2010. and 11,824 partakers in 2011.. there was an increase of 622 or 5.5% in one year.. your thoughts?.

source: 2012 yearbook (in spanish).

leaving_quietly

780 increase over last year: 6.5%

68

WTS says U.S. pubs increased .9% (less than 1%)for 2012

by Gayle in

jw
friends

2013 yearbook on jw.org.

leaving_quietly

A couple of outliers....

Saint Martin (not the same as Saint Maarten) (no report for 2011, 299 for 2012, so 100% increase)

South Sudan (no report for 2011, 1103 for 2012, so 100% increase)

Smaller yearbook, too. 192 pgs. (255 in 2011 and 2012 yearbooks)

48

WT Society Still Lies to JW's into Believing they Live Forever - 12/15 WT

by flipper in

jw
friends

this quote was just so annoying and unbelievable it stunk the pages right up.

but doesn't all the wt rhetoric stink it up ?

in the article titled, " find real success in life " on pg.

leaving_quietly

Among verses avoided like the plague: John 6:40 and latter half of 6:44.

Re: John 6:40, w78 9/1 25 really muddies the water:

"Thus those particular ones coming to Jesus and exercising faith in him as the Messiah during this present system of things have the prospect of everlasting life. Why so? Because Jesus Christ will raise them up from the dead at the last day. This guarantees to them a resurrection. Here we should note that Jesus did not say, in this case under discussion, that a person must first have a resurrection and afterward come to him in faith and feed upon him in order to have everlasting life. Quite plainly Jesus is here not talking about those already dead in the memorial tombs like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses, David and John the Baptizer. Jesus was there talking to the then living Jews, including many disciples of his, who were in the Mosaic law covenant."

a) the "prospect" word is used

b) this scripture only applies "to the then living Jews"

However, John 11:25,26 says" Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; 26 and everyone that is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?”

So, who does this apply to? By the same logic, it should be "to the then living Jews." None of those Jews living are still alive today.

1

Yet another JW mention in the news Re: failed prophecy

by leaving_quietly in

jw
friends

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20712815.

leaving_quietly

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20712815

9

Levels

by goddidit in

i have a few questions but first let me lay out what i think i know and please correct me if i'm wrong.. .

there are 'normal' jws and there are elders.

the elders have had a kind of promotion (they way they see it) and have some 'priviliges' and access to publications that 'normal' jws don't.

leaving_quietly

@Balsamass - there is no longer a City Overseer. That position was eliminated. No wonder... it was kinda useless anyway.

Are there levels with the intent of keeping some in the dark? I would have to say yes. The "Shepherd" book that elders use now is one such example. Only elders get to have one and when one no longer serves, the other elders are supposed to ask for their copy back. What could they possibly want to keep hidden? I used to serve as an elder, and I've read that book cover to cover (unlike many fellow elders who didn't know the contents unless they had a JC.) So, what's so secret? How about policies of things they can and cannot do. For example, they CAN start a JC when someone celebrates a holiday that is religious in nature or that violates neutrality. That means birthdays are NOT something they can touch. This was brought out a the special elder's school, too. If the average JW found that out, they would start celebrating birthdays left and right.

What else? Oh, if a married couple decide to call it quits, unless there's some form of immorality involved, elders CANNOT get involved. At least, that's what the book says. Not true in reality, as many here know.

Even on the elder body there are levels. The "Service Committee" made up of the Coordinator, Secretary and Service Overseer, for example. They make many decisions alone without the input of the rest of the body. I have seen some elder bodies take this particular committee very, very seriously. Fortunately, the body I served on did not and was more loosy-goosy with that arrangement.

There are definitely levels, too, among average JWs. If a young woman does not marry a pioneer, ministerial servant or elder, others think poorly of her. If a young brother is not pioneering or serving as a ministerial servant or elder, others think poorly of him. It's all about position, at least in the minds of middle-aged to older JWs. The younger ones, it seems, could care less.

23

watchtower still dropping the ball

by nowwhat? in

wow what a great updated jw.org website!

so where's the condolences for the victims and families of the sandy hook trajedy?

instead we get a story about the neon watchtower sign!

leaving_quietly

It's actually nice to see something on the website acknowledging the Newtown, CT tragedy and the Miami bus crash. Better than complete silence, as has been with so many tragedies of the past.

I can definitely see a difference in "the world" and JWs. The tragedy was definitely the talk of the congs this past weekend and how it proves we are in the last days. Personally, I shed real tears over the recent tragedy in Connecticut. Before learning TTATT, no tears were shed over any tragedy... not even 9/11. My wife was baffled at my response. Even Jesus wept over the death of Lazarus, even though he knew he was going to be resurrected. Decent lesson for us.

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly